Some Questions to Spur Discussion

[Nate the Great]

Before we get into today's topic, I think I'll enjoy some echos from this cavernous stretch of cyberspace that I seem to be enjoying.

Nate: Hello.....
Echo1: .........Hello......
Echo2: .....................Hello......
All: Hello!

Just some random questions to encourage posting:

1. What do you think really happened to the Xindi in the hundred years before Kirk? Are they still there and we just never saw one, or were they assimilated by the Borg when no one was looking, or what?
2. Do you prefer Mark One Assimilation (beam you away and insert implants manually and probably surgically) or Mark Two Assimilation (inject you with nanoprobes and manufacture implants using metal from hammerspace)? As a plot device, I mean, not as the way you'd prefer to be assimilated. :)
3. Can you think of a reason why Andorians' antennae never moved in TOS? Was it bred out of the genepool, or is it a trick that only certain Andorians can do, akin to wiggling ears?
4. Regardless of the way the dictionary says it, do you prefer "few-tile" or "few-till?"
5. Do you think Voyager really had an aero-shuttle? Why didn't they use it? Was it in the plans but never made, or were some crucial parts going to arrive "next Tuesday" and Janeway had to leave with an incomplete ship because of the Maquis threat?
6. Is it really reasonable that there are only X torpedoes on Voyager? Surely they can replicate casings and trade for antimatter with other spacefaring races, right?
7. Would you have prefered Ro Laren to have starred on DS9 instead of Kira, as was in the original plans?
8. Are you a Wesley/Lefler shipper?
9. You think Captain Bateson was still in command of the Bozeman in First Contact, or was he swapping drinks with Scotty on Wrigley's Pleasure Planet?
10. Do you disregard all mention of lasers and lithium crystals and Vulcanians and time-warp factors in the early episodes of TOS, or do you think that they really were in a transition period in the mid-2260s?
11. Those STTMP uniforms really did stink, didn't they?
12. You think that Commodore is still a valid rank in the 24th century?
13. Should Picard have retired to serve as Commandant of Starfleet Academy and given the Enterprise to Riker a long time ago? I think so.
14. You think Riker's ticked off that Janeway made Admiral before he did? They are in the same class, you know.
15. You really think it would've been an "unheroic dead" if Soran had just shoot Kirk in the back, like it was originally shot?
16. If there was one Trek game that Paramount decided to market in real life, which game? Taking out Fizzbin as insanely complicated, would you prefer Parrises Squares, Kalto, Anbo-jytsu, Tongo, Dabo, what?

[Derek]

1. What do you think really happened to the Xindi in the hundred years before Kirk? Are they still there and we just never saw one, or were they assimilated by the Borg when no one was looking, or what?
What happened to Andorians during TNG and later beyond a few passing mentions? Either Xindi became reclusive or they joined the Federation quietly. Maybe none of them were especially keen on joining Starfleet.

2. Do you prefer Mark One Assimilation (beam you away and insert implants manually and probably surgically) or Mark Two Assimilation (inject you with nanoprobes and manufacture implants using metal from hammerspace)? As a plot device, I mean, not as the way you'd prefer to be assimilated. :)
Well, technically, there's just one kind. They inject you with nanoprobes, and then later they add metal stuff. But assimilation did seem to go a lot differently as time progressed. Like many things about the Borg.

3. Can you think of a reason why Andorians' antennae never moved in TOS? Was it bred out of the genepool, or is it a trick that only certain Andorians can do, akin to wiggling ears?
See question 10.

4. Regardless of the way the dictionary says it, do you prefer "few-tile" or "few-till?"
I say it either way. I also say either either way.

5. Do you think Voyager really had an aero-shuttle? Why didn't they use it? Was it in the plans but never made, or were some crucial parts going to arrive "next Tuesday" and Janeway had to leave with an incomplete ship because of the Maquis threat?
Don't really know much about an "aero-shuttle." Sorry.

6. Is it really reasonable that there are only X torpedoes on Voyager? Surely they can replicate casings and trade for antimatter with other spacefaring races, right?
I'd think so, though of course in a crunch time, you can't quite pop them out of nowhere. And perhaps you couldn't refine the antimatter (if that makes sense) as well on a ship as you could at a facility.

7. Would you have prefered Ro Laren to have starred on DS9 instead of Kira, as was in the original plans?
No.

8. Are you a Wesley/Lefler shipper?
My shippiness in general is set to a very low level. I don't care who hooks up with who.

9. You think Captain Bateson was still in command of the Bozeman in First Contact, or was he swapping drinks with Scotty on Wrigley's Pleasure Planet?
It was Bateson on the Bozeman. I'm just sure of it.

10. Do you disregard all mention of lasers and lithium crystals and Vulcanians and time-warp factors in the early episodes of TOS, or do you think that they really were in a transition period in the mid-2260s?
The first one.

11. Those STTMP uniforms really did stink, didn't they?
Yes.

12. You think that Commodore is still a valid rank in the 24th century?
Apparently not, or else we'd've seen them.

13. Should Picard have retired to serve as Commandant of Starfleet Academy and given the Enterprise to Riker a long time ago? I think so.
No, Riker should have had his own command a long time ago. Really, he should have had it during BoBW, but certainly by First Contact.

14. You think Riker's ticked off that Janeway made Admiral before he did? They are in the same class, you know.
Riker's been standing still as a Commander for a very long time. Too long.

15. You really think it would've been an "unheroic dead" if Soran had just shoot Kirk in the back, like it was originally shot?
Don't know. Would have to see it.

16. If there was one Trek game that Paramount decided to market in real life, which game? Taking out Fizzbin as insanely complicated, would you prefer Parrises Squares, Kalto, Anbo-jytsu, Tongo, Dabo, what?
3D chess.

[Burt]

Now this is more like it!


1. What do you think really happened to the Xindi in the hundred years before Kirk? Are they still there and we just never saw one, or were they assimilated by the Borg when no one was looking, or what?

Maybe we just didn't hear from them around then? Think about now. Do you hear much about the Native Americans on TV? Or the Australian Aboriginals?
In any case, I'm still a little lost with the Enterprise/star trek timeline. Is the 'normal' timeline, the Xindi joining the federation? Before the sphere builders came along? Turned them against Earth before Archer turned them back into friends. Or were the Xindi not really around at all. Maybe the normal timeline was just:
-Federation knows of Xindi, but not really close.
-Federation stops the Builders
-Builders go back and find the Xindi are a good way of stopping Humans forming the Federation.
It's only this action that brought the Federation into real contact with the Xindi. So they wouldn't have been around much in TOS or TNG we watched. I guess that would make Enterprise a alt-universe thing??? Or are the writers saying that all this time travel/cold war stuff was always part of Trek history? In that case......I'm lost.


2. Do you prefer Mark One Assimilation (beam you away and insert implants manually and probably surgically) or Mark Two Assimilation (inject you with nanoprobes and manufacture implants using metal from hammerspace)? As a plot device, I mean, not as the way you'd prefer to be assimilated. :)
Gotta go with Derek on this. They inject you then add the other stuff. But it does still seem to have changed a lot. They seemed to take a lot longer making over Picard that other later in the show. Either it's because Picard was a more special drone or maybe they found new and better ways to Assimilate. we discover new ways to do things quicker. I guess they would too.


3. Can you think of a reason why Andorians' antennae never moved in TOS? Was it bred out of the genepool, or is it a trick that only certain Andorians can do, akin to wiggling ears?
I'd guess the wagging ears things


4. Regardless of the way the dictionary says it, do you prefer "few-tile" or "few-till?"

Few-tile. All credit to Jeri Ryan as an actor, but Few-tile is much scarier


5. Do you think Voyager really had an aero-shuttle? Why didn't they use it? Was it in the plans but never made, or were some crucial parts going to arrive "next Tuesday" and Janeway had to leave with an incomplete ship because of the Maquis threat?

I have a Voyager model, and long before I heard anything about this aero-shuttle, I thought the bit on the underside looked like a ship. It looks too much like a ship not to be one.
But clearly the writers didn't want to add it to the show. However a few lines saying something like....'It's a pity we can't use the aero-shuttle because...' - add reason, would have sorted everything out! I did read an idea a while back that what we saw was a outer casing, put in place because the shuttle was never installed.


6. Is it really reasonable that there are only X torpedoes on Voyager? Surely they can replicate casings and trade for antimatter with other spacefaring races, right?
Not really. Maybe there was something extra they needed to do, that we didn't know about. The ship did have antimatter. Maybe Janeway was worried about using that, and running out of fuel? Clearly they worked out something though, cos they used a lot more than they had at the start.


7. Would you have preferred Ro Laren to have starred on DS9 instead of Kira, as was in the original plans?

Utterly no. I like Ro, but I like Kira too much too have not had her there too.


8. Are you a Wesley/Lefler shipper?

Not really no.


9. You think Captain Bateson was still in command of the Bozeman in First Contact, or was he swapping drinks with Scotty on Wrigley's Pleasure Planet?

Ever read 'Ship of the line'? Take out all the Bateson being an idiot bit's and I quite like the idea that Starfleet would go to all the trouble of refitting an old starship for the crew and captain. Because it's their only link to the past.
I vote yes. (The Bozeman was mentioned in Generations too. I think that was them too!)


10. Do you disregard all mention of lasers and lithium crystals and Vulcanians and time-warp factors in the early episodes of TOS, or do you think that they really were in a transition period in the mid-2260s?

Sort of. Again things change names nowadays too.


11. Those STTMP uniforms really did stink, didn't they?

Like some sort of dull cream nightmare


12. You think that Commodore is still a valid rank in the 24th century?

I think certain captains are more powerful than others. That’s what the rank was really anyway? I think someone like Picard could pull rank on a smaller boarder ship.


13. Should Picard have retired to serve as Commandant of Starfleet Academy and given the Enterprise to Riker a long time ago? I think so.

Never!


14. You think Riker's ticked off that Janeway made Admiral before he did? They are in the same class, you know.

I'm shocked she made it before Picard! But not Riker. I don't even think he wanted to be a captain for years.


15. You really think it would've been an "unheroic dead" if Soran had just shoot Kirk in the back, like it was originally shot?

Yeah


16. If there was one Trek game that Paramount decided to market in real life, which game? Taking out Fizzbin as insanely complicated, would you prefer Parrises Squares, Kalto, Anbo-jytsu, Tongo, Dabo, what?
I liked Strategema. Either that or Kalto

[ijdgaf]

1. What do you think really happened to the Xindi in the hundred years before Kirk? Are they still there and we just never saw one, or were they assimilated by the Borg when no one was looking, or what?

I have heard that Baltimore has an unusual mix of ethnicities. I have not noticed this any time I have been there. That doesn't mean that the city is not ethnically diverse -- it only means that I've been presented with non-representitive samples of the community.

Also, make-up is an expensive and time consuming process. There's a reason almost everyone you see on most of the shows (perhaps excepting DS9) is human.

2. Do you prefer Mark One Assimilation (beam you away and insert implants manually and probably surgically) or Mark Two Assimilation (inject you with nanoprobes and manufacture implants using metal from hammerspace)? As a plot device, I mean, not as the way you'd prefer to be assimilated. :)

3. Can you think of a reason why Andorians' antennae never moved in TOS? Was it bred out of the genepool, or is it a trick that only certain Andorians can do, akin to wiggling ears?


I don't see much point in discussing practical in-universe explanations for make-up or aesthetic alterations.

4. Regardless of the way the dictionary says it, do you prefer "few-tile" or "few-till?"

It's not a word I use often. Probably the former.

5. Do you think Voyager really had an aero-shuttle? Why didn't they use it? Was it in the plans but never made, or were some crucial parts going to arrive "next Tuesday" and Janeway had to leave with an incomplete ship because of the Maquis threat?

They didn't use it because nobody remembered to write it into the script. Therefore, for all intents and purposes, the ship did not exist. Anything further is speculative.

6. Is it really reasonable that there are only X torpedoes on Voyager? Surely they can replicate casings and trade for antimatter with other spacefaring races, right?

Maybe, but you can't use technology as a crux for everything. Then you get into the deus ex machina storytelling that has plagued pretty much all the modern Trek series.

I liked the idea that they would be limited in resources, but it never really panned out. It's pretty much the same thing that happened with the original Battlestar Galactica. A dire situation... then Space Casinos! That doesn't mean it has to be taken in the absolute opposite direction that the new BSG has. But I do think, "Year of Hell" aside, Voyager's way-optimistic direction was somewhat unrealistic.

7. Would you have prefered Ro Laren to have starred on DS9 instead of Kira, as was in the original plans?

If she had, would much have been different? Writers take characters in directions that make sense. The show had a team of excellent writers. I'm sure they would have done fantastic things with her character as well. But I don't see the show being drastically different.

8. Are you a Wesley/Lefler shipper?

I'm a "my fist"/"shippers' throats" shipper.

9. You think Captain Bateson was still in command of the Bozeman in First Contact, or was he swapping drinks with Scotty on Wrigley's Pleasure Planet?

Didn't Kelsey Grammar lend his voice for the movie? I think that pretty much settles it.


10. Do you disregard all mention of lasers and lithium crystals and Vulcanians and time-warp factors in the early episodes of TOS, or do you think that they really were in a transition period in the mid-2260s?

I don't discount them. I don't try to encorporate them with the rest of the universe either. Those are minor details with little-to-no impact on how the story was told.

11. Those STTMP uniforms really did stink, didn't they?

Begging the question much? I thought they were fine. There was more differentiation between departments than any other uniform before or since. It's too cool to hate on TMP. Flawed, sure. But no more or less so than the other Trek films.

12. You think that Commodore is still a valid rank in the 24th century?

IRL, between the shows, the navy renamed "Commodore" to "Rear Admiral". TPTB chose to do the same. Seems reasonable to me.

13. Should Picard have retired to serve as Commandant of Starfleet Academy and given the Enterprise to Riker a long time ago? I think so.

Patrick Stewart is 10x the actor Jonathon Frakes is.

(no)

14. You think Riker's ticked off that Janeway made Admiral before he did? They are in the same class, you know.

I think he cries himself to sleep.

15. You really think it would've been an "unheroic dead" if Soran had just shoot Kirk in the back, like it was originally shot?

Yes, and fans everywhere would have torched Moore and Braga's houses.

A very good thing they thought otherwise.

16. If there was one Trek game that Paramount decided to market in real life, which game? Taking out Fizzbin as insanely complicated, would you prefer Parrises Squares, Kalto, Anbo-jytsu, Tongo, Dabo, what?

3D chess, definitely. I would love to learn that.

[Derek]

Begging the question much? I thought they were fine. There was more differentiation between departments than any other uniform before or since. It's too cool to hate on TMP. Flawed, sure. But no more or less so than the other Trek films.
This statement is obviously not directed at me. Therefore I must defend myself.

I actually like TMP a lot. It's a good movie, and I will never say otherwise, but it is not without its faults. One of those flaws, in my opinion, is the uniforms. They were too bland. Instead of taking the extreme of TOS, where the uniform colors were bright-red, bright-yellow, and bright-blue, they decided to run to the other end and have many different colored uniforms, all variations on ecru. I appreciate the attempt, but I think the colors should have been a bit more contrasting for the audience's sake.

Of course, their next attempt was to remove practically all uniform distinctions, so what do I know?

Having now successfully defended my TMP-cred, which was probably never in danger to being with, I return to the mists of the internet.

[Nate the Great]

I have read Ship of the Line. Good one. But even Pocket Books Trek novels aren't canon.

Was Grammer's voice heard over the comm link? Confimation on this, please?

Maybe I should spend some time on the aeroshuttle. Basically it's the "Captain's Yacht" of Voyager. Same location, but it looked a lot more like a runabout than the E-D yacht. I've been wondering about that, because it would've served most of the functions of the Delta Flyer, plus that's a LOT of wasted space if the thing just wasn't finished being built.

Okay, whether or not Stewart is a better actor than Frakes (e-mail for my opinion, that's a topic for another day), it doesn't matter, we are talking about PICARD and RIKER. The fictional characters, not the actors.

Jim Wright wants a Kalto set. I would personally like a Tongo set.

[ijdgaf]

I just really didn't see a problem with the TMP uniforms. They certainly never took me out of the movie.

And who is the better actor makes all the difference in that question, I'm sorry. My answer is based on who I would rather watch in the show's most crucial role. I don't think Frakes would pull it off with nearly the kickassery of Stewart's performance. And I'm glad he never took over.

[Gatac]

1) Xindi 1: This sucks!
Xindi 2: Yeah!
Xindi 1: Let's get tacos!
Xindi 2: Yeah, tacos!

Pity that the next taco stand was deep in Borg territory.

2) Mark 2, atleast insofar as it immobilizes the victim much quicker and is more visually impressive - it *looks* far more high tech. Sure, manual implants are much more plausible, but I don't care.

3) *wiggles ears* What do you think?

4) Few-tile 4 life, homie.

5) I like the "just a cover installed" theory - otherwise, I guess it's plausible that they thought it wasn't suited to their mission and dismantled it for spare parts, then later purpose-built the Delta Flyer to take its position.

6) Since I like the "replicators can do a lot, even manufacture shuttles", I'm thinking that the limiting factor was some complicated part in the electronics that they had to figure out how to manufacture first. I've read some theories that shuttles can be replicated except for the warp coils, and I figure the warp sustainer engine on a torpedo has similar problems. They either figured that out or went "Screw that, we need torpedos, build them without it." Anyone ever counted the torpedos fired at warp? Those could, presumably, be only the 40 or so Voyager came with if they saved them for those kinda situations.

7) Somewhat. I found Kira very annoying until she mellowed out a bit, and I have a feeling they wouldn't have written Ro that way and later gone much the same route. However, Kira was also supposed to be annoying, so seeing her come around to being a Federation fanbabe does count as character development...No strong feelings either way, I guess.

8) Definately. The more they fall in love, the less screentime Wesley gets. (Or maybe he finally grows up a bit.)

9) Still in command. Starfleet captains are notoriously hard to convince to retire...even if they do, they have a tendency to come back for more. As long as he's got a pulse, he's the Cap'n!

10) Disregard.

11) I can't actually think of an uniform design I really liked, except perhaps the Enterprise jumpsuits. Everything else doesn't look very...uniformy to me. Then again, the best idea they ever had was putting Troi in a "proper" uniform. Clearly someone understood that you can cover up more and still come out sexier.

Uh, but about TMP: I don't know. They mildly annoy me, I guess.

12) I like the sound of it, but I don't think you can legitimately call anyone Commodore who hasn't ever been on a ship with sails.

(Hm, Commodore Picard...)

13) Picard is clearly in the "lessons learned from Kirk" department: Never give up the ship. As for Riker, he's got the frakkin Titan now.

(As an aside, I would've washed Riker out a long time ago for refusing promotions like that. It's a wonder he made Captain at all. Certainly wouldn't have given him the Enterprise.)

14) He's got nobody to blame but himself. He clearly had offers for a Captain's promotion before Voyager started, and Janeway was also pretty fresh there, so it's not like she had a massive headstart. Then again, I don't know if Janeway is to be admired at all here - I think they Kirked her (see 13) to make sure she'd never go off on a tangent again. Sure, it's a promotion, but they can't fire her or risk putting her on another ship, so where do you put her so you can keep an eye on her?

15) If he gets to be somewhat heroic, I wouldn't have minded. The whole movie is a kind of "The bigger they are, the harder they fall" story. I'm far more sore over the pimpslapping of the Ent-D.

(Though I gotta say that the Ent-E is one sweet piece of ship.)

16) 3D chess. I wouldn't mind some Mok'bara dojos, either.

Gatac

[Zeke]

Good idea for a thread, Nate.

1. What do you think really happened to the Xindi in the hundred years before Kirk? Are they still there and we just never saw one, or were they assimilated by the Borg when no one was looking, or what?

IJD's point is excellent; I'll just add that if you prefer them to be gone by TOS's time, it's easy to come up with a reason. I've done it twice on this site (though jokingly).

2. Do you prefer Mark One Assimilation (beam you away and insert implants manually and probably surgically) or Mark Two Assimilation (inject you with nanoprobes and manufacture implants using metal from hammerspace)? As a plot device, I mean, not as the way you'd prefer to be assimilated. :)

Tim Lynch argued that the Borg are almost too powerful now. I agree, but what I love about the assimilation tubules is that they leave two punctures in the neck, making the parallel with vampires even more obvious than it already was.

It bugged me that the Borg's new look was retconned into the past, but then, I think it was silly to explain the change in Klingon foreheads, so I can't really complain.

3. Can you think of a reason why Andorians' antennae never moved in TOS? Was it bred out of the genepool, or is it a trick that only certain Andorians can do, akin to wiggling ears?

Motors. Andorian antennae don't move naturally; special motors have to be installed. Sometime between ENT and TOS, they ran out.

4. Regardless of the way the dictionary says it, do you prefer "few-tile" or "few-till?"

Use-less.

5. Do you think Voyager really had an aero-shuttle? Why didn't they use it? Was it in the plans but never made, or were some crucial parts going to arrive "next Tuesday" and Janeway had to leave with an incomplete ship because of the Maquis threat?

Given that it was never mentioned and the Delta Flyer ended up taking its role, I think it's needlessly complicated to treat it as canon at all. I think of it more like "Ryker" and "Leslie Crusher."

6. Is it really reasonable that there are only X torpedoes on Voyager? Surely they can replicate casings and trade for antimatter with other spacefaring races, right?

That's what I've always said, but nooooo, people had to count them.

7. Would you have prefered Ro Laren to have starred on DS9 instead of Kira, as was in the original plans?

In retrospect, definitely not. At the time, probably. Hindsight is 20/20.

8. Are you a Wesley/Lefler shipper?

No. I found the thing with her and Si Cwan in New Frontier more interesting, but that's relative: Lefler does not remotely interest me.

9. You think Captain Bateson was still in command of the Bozeman in First Contact?

If it blew up, no. If it didn't, yes.

10. Do you disregard all mention of lasers and lithium crystals and Vulcanians and time-warp factors in the early episodes of TOS, or do you think that they really were in a transition period in the mid-2260s?

Disregard. Every show has pilot anomalies.

11. Those STTMP uniforms really did stink, didn't they?

I'm with Derek on this one. I'm all for Starfleet trying new things, but that doesn't extend to long underwear. (By the way, the reason for the bland colours was that someone, Wise maybe, felt they would be less distracting to the audience than the gaudy TOS uniforms.)

12. You think that Commodore is still a valid rank in the 24th century?

Little-known fact: I made a bunch of suggestions between VVS8 and VVS9, one of which was promoting Janeway to Commodore since she would be leading a fleet, and having Chakotay step up to the command of Voyager. Another suggestion was having Barclay join the crew. For some reason, even though I'd discussed these ideas with SaRa beforehand, I nearly got my face bitten off for daring to post them in the Yahoo group. Yeah, VVS was a barrel of laughs.

13. Should Picard have retired to serve as Commandant of Starfleet Academy and given the Enterprise to Riker a long time ago?

Booooring. Riker has his moments, but Picard is the heart and soul of TNG.

14. You think Riker's ticked off that Janeway made Admiral before he did? They are in the same class, you know.

I think it could work to his favour. The bane of captains is admirals. Having Janeway in his corner should help.

15. You really think it would've been an "unheroic dead" if Soran had just shoot Kirk in the back, like it was originally shot?

Yes. Of course, a lot of people were dissatisfied with the revised version too. There's no way to kill an iconic character without upsetting a lot of people.

16. If there was one Trek game that Paramount decided to market in real life, which game? Taking out Fizzbin as insanely complicated, would you prefer Parrises Squares, Kalto, Anbo-jytsu, Tongo, Dabo, what?

Kal-toh. I don't know how in the world you would play it, but I want to.

[Commodore Zuke]

I like the sound of it, but I don't think you can legitimately call anyone Commodore who hasn't ever been on a ship with sails.

Are you calling my reign ILLEGITIMATE?

[MaverickZer0]

1. What do you think really happened to the Xindi in the hundred years before Kirk? Are they still there and we just never saw one, or were they assimilated by the Borg when no one was looking, or what?

The Spherebuilders got mad at them for wrecking their plans and erased them from existence by going back and killing the first Xindi. Unfortuantely for them, this led to them also being erased from existence and doomed Enterprise NX-01 to obscurity.



2. Do you prefer Mark One Assimilation (beam you away and insert implants manually and probably surgically) or Mark Two Assimilation (inject you with nanoprobes and manufacture implants using metal from hammerspace)? As a plot device, I mean, not as the way you'd prefer to be assimilated. :)

Number 2. Although I always saw more of a zombie, maybe insect parallel than a vampire one, though I grant that more complicated 'turning' methods is more like a lich.


3. Can you think of a reason why Andorians' antennae never moved in TOS? Was it bred out of the genepool, or is it a trick that only certain Andorians can do, akin to wiggling ears?


Probably the second one.


4. Regardless of the way the dictionary says it, do you prefer "few-tile" or "few-till?"


Second. Though I pronounce infrared as 'in-frared' so maybe I'm the wrong one to ask.



5. Do you think Voyager really had an aero-shuttle? Why didn't they use it? Was it in the plans but never made, or were some crucial parts going to arrive "next Tuesday" and Janeway had to leave with an incomplete ship because of the Maquis threat?

Nope. I sincerely doubt they ever had one. If they did, though? Chakotay killed it.



6. Is it really reasonable that there are only X torpedoes on Voyager? Surely they can replicate casings and trade for antimatter with other spacefaring races, right?

You mean like they did to replace the shuttles? :p



7. Would you have prefered Ro Laren to have starred on DS9 instead of Kira, as was in the original plans?


Hell no. Kira was cool. Ro Laren should've had a bigger part, though.


8. Are you a Wesley/Lefler shipper?


I'm not really an anyone/anyone 'shipper when it comes to TNG.



9. You think Captain Bateson was still in command of the Bozeman in First Contact, or was he swapping drinks with Scotty on Wrigley's Pleasure Planet?


Bateson was too good to 'splodey. So no.



10. Do you disregard all mention of lasers and lithium crystals and Vulcanians and time-warp factors in the early episodes of TOS, or do you think that they really were in a transition period in the mid-2260s?


A little of both. Mostly the first, though.



11. Those STTMP uniforms really did stink, didn't they?


No more than the TOS dress uniforms.



12. You think that Commodore is still a valid rank in the 24th century?


I can't see why it wouldn't be.



13. Should Picard have retired to serve as Commandant of Starfleet Academy and given the Enterprise to Riker a long time ago? I think so.


Think of the academy students! No way.



14. You think Riker's ticked off that Janeway made Admiral before he did? They are in the same class, you know.


Probably. Wouldn't you be?



15. You really think it would've been an "unheroic dead" if Soran had just shoot Kirk in the back, like it was originally shot?


I dislike shooting people in the back...wait, that came out wrong.



16. If there was one Trek game that Paramount decided to market in real life, which game? Taking out Fizzbin as insanely complicated, would you prefer Parrises Squares, Kalto, Anbo-jytsu, Tongo, Dabo, what?

Kal-toh. It looks like Vulcan chess or something.


Finally, to Zuke: It was April 1st. You picked the one day of the year no one would believe you. That is neither foresightful nor legitimate. So :P to you.

[Burt]

I'm not quite sure what the Aeroshuttle was supposed to be or do. Was it a kinda of...Captains yacht? Because would Voyager really need one of them? Being a...Mission specialist type ship. And 'Aeroshuttle' doesn't really give the impression of a diplomatic ship. Sounds to me, more like a really fast shuttle? Or a shuttle designed to work in a planets atmosphere? Anyway, the only canon stuff I can find is something from Enterprise, funny enough. And it's not really enough to prove its existence. But have a check here:

http://www.memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Aeroshuttle

[Nate the Great]

I'm for the "Janeway left Dodge in a hurry, the Aeroshuttle wasn't quite finished, she stripped it for parts a long time ago" theory.

Okay, replicating shuttles and replicating torpedoes are not equivalent. I imagine that the computer is a LOT simpler on a torpedo, plus it's easier to make a warp sustainer engine than a full warp core.

Tuvok: Kal-toh is to chess as chess is to tic-tac-toe.

Of course people counted. Janeway said that there were X torpedos and that they can't get any more. She was figuratively screaming at the viewer to Do The Math. There are entire websites devoted to keeping track of crewman, Maquis, shuttlecraft, lightyears travelled, etc. That's the funny part, they should've jumped into Beta Quadrant at about mid-season six.

[Derek]

If it blew up, no. If it didn't, yes.
Or if he was captain and the ship did blow up, then it would keep blowing up over and over.

[mudshark]

1. What do you think really happened to the Xindi in the hundred years before Kirk? Are they still there and we just never saw one, or were they assimilated by the Borg when no one was looking, or what?
We just never saw one.

Space is big, remember? It was clear that the Xindi were in a fairly out-of-the-way spot. We don't even see all the races who occupy territory immediately adjacent to Federation space in every series.
2. Do you prefer Mark One Assimilation (beam you away and insert implants manually and probably surgically) or Mark Two Assimilation (inject you with nanoprobes and manufacture implants using metal from hammerspace)? As a plot device, I mean, not as the way you'd prefer to be assimilated. :)
I never thought about it much, to be honest.
3. Can you think of a reason why Andorians' antennae never moved in TOS? Was it bred out of the genepool, or is it a trick that only certain Andorians can do, akin to wiggling ears?
Probably like the forehead thing.
4. Regardless of the way the dictionary says it, do you prefer "few-tile" or "few-till?"
The dictionary gives both. I usually use the latter pronunciation. I imagine it's one of those "depends where you were living when you first heard it" things.
5. Do you think Voyager really had an aero-shuttle? Why didn't they use it? Was it in the plans but never made, or were some crucial parts going to arrive "next Tuesday" and Janeway had to leave with an incomplete ship because of the Maquis threat?
I never heard about it until after Voyager had concluded, and consequently don't feel like worrying about it a whole lot.
6. Is it really reasonable that there are only X torpedoes on Voyager? Surely they can replicate casings and trade for antimatter with other spacefaring races, right?
The only thing we know is that at X time early on, that's how many there were. Could they have made more? Sure, why not?
7. Would you have prefered Ro Laren to have starred on DS9 instead of Kira, as was in the original plans?
I quite liked Ro as a character, but I also quite liked Kira. If having Ro on DS9 means no Kira, then no -- I'm quite happy with what we got.
8. Are you a Wesley/Lefler shipper?
The closest I ever got to being a shipper was a feeling of "Yes! About goddamn time!" when Tom and B'Elanna finally got on the same page in "Day of Honor". Wesley/Lefler? Meh. Never thought about it much.
9. You think Captain Bateson was still in command of the Bozeman in First Contact, or was he swapping drinks with Scotty on Wrigley's Pleasure Planet?
Really getting into "who cares?" territory for me, here.
10. Do you disregard all mention of lasers and lithium crystals and Vulcanians and time-warp factors in the early episodes of TOS, or do you think that they really were in a transition period in the mid-2260s?
Zeke pretty much said it above. Pretty trivial and not to be bothered about.
11. Those STTMP uniforms really did stink, didn't they?
The 23rd-century equivalent of leisure suits. I never liked them much.
12. You think that Commodore is still a valid rank in the 24th century?
Dunno. What does it say onscreen?
13. Should Picard have retired to serve as Commandant of Starfleet Academy and given the Enterprise to Riker a long time ago? I think so.
Naah.
14. You think Riker's ticked off that Janeway made Admiral before he did? They are in the same class, you know.
Hope so.
15. You really think it would've been an "unheroic dead" if Soran had just shoot Kirk in the back, like it was originally shot?
As stated above, you really can't win, here. Killing Kirk is killing Kirk.
16. If there was one Trek game that Paramount decided to market in real life, which game? Taking out Fizzbin as insanely complicated, would you prefer Parrises Squares, Kalto, Anbo-jytsu, Tongo, Dabo, what?
I kinda like kal-toh.

Anbo-jitsu was just silly. "Pugilism while bouncing on a trampoline" had been done years earlier in The Prisoner, anyway.

[Chancellor Valium]

1. The spherebuilders got angry, and the entire Xindi race were pulled into the anti-time universe, where they were destroyed by the peculiar stresses of anti-time.
2. Mk II. Much more visually impressive, as Gatac said.
3. Genetic differences, different subspecies, maybe? Maybe just adaption to different climates on Andor - some people burn very easily, some people don't - maybe the antenna have special roles for some Andorians...
4. "Few-tile", et non sanz droit.
5. I think Voyager didn't need one, since it apparently had infinite supplies of shuttles. This is one thing I *really* hate about Voyager.
6. Ahh, yes. They only have X amount, which mysteriously re-stock every episode. See my response to 5.
7. Hell no. Kira was cool, Ro was annoying.
8. Hell no. The only 'ship I liked was Odo/Kira, partly because it wasn't as half-baked as most of the rest, IMO.
9. No idea.
10. Just early continuity errors. Happens with every sci-fi show.
11. Which ones? The pyjamas, or the red thingies? I quite liked the red thingies.
12. Yes, dammit. Just because we don't *see* any, doesn't mean they don't exist. I suspect it's a special rank for members of Section 31, though. It sounds important, without actually claiming the highest ranks...
13. No. Riker's a a prat.
14. Probably. Riker should have died a long time ago.
15. I think Kirk stayed alive far too long.
16. Tongo and Kal-toh. And maybe Domm-jot (sp?)

[Nate the Great]

Oh, yeah, the red uniforms are amongst the best ones in all of Trek. I think we can all agree on this. Totally naval, you can tell one rank from another without craning your neck to stare at the other guy's collar. Plus those boots actually looked like functional boots that you could go traipsing around strange new worlds in.

Can anyone tell me what's so wrong with Riker? For that matter, I've heard people bash Chakotay a lot, too. They're second in command, they are not the stars of their shows. They have to deal with the second-fiddle role consistently.

When it comes to Klingons, I kinda preferred the notion that there were two different dominant races in the Klingon Empire. Maybe the turtle-headed guys from Kronos/Q'onos bumped into the mongol guys from Klinzhai hundreds of years ago, and they just combined forces into one Empire. Remember Klinzhai? It fell into a plot hole years ago, along with Romii. For that matter, maybe smooth-browed Romulans are from Romii and the furrowed-brow Romulans are from Romulus, you never know.

It suddenly occurs to me that the Tal Shiar, the Obsidian Order, and Section 31 really didn't fulfill identical roles. The Tal Shiar is more of a shadow of the military, the Obsidian Order is the shadow of the bureaucracy, and Section 31 is the shadow of the populace.

[MaverickZer0]

Alright. Give me another explanation for the number of shuttles they had. It was either they made new ones, or they had a near-endless supply to begin with. Take your pick. Or maybe they had little blocks of metal (just add water!) that turned into shuttles. :p

Yes. But when it comes to logical games like chess and Kal-toh, the Vulcan mind is far more suited to thinking that way than the human mind. Therefore Kal-toh is on the same level to a Vulcan as chess is to a human. Chess would be to a Vulcan as tic-tac-toe is to a human.

Of course. Section 31 is way more awesome than the other two. Never mind Sloane being a terrible agent, he was the only one we ever SAW. Unless you count Malcolm. :D

[PointyHairedJedi]

1. What do you think really happened to the Xindi in the hundred years before Kirk? Are they still there and we just never saw one, or were they assimilated by the Borg when no one was looking, or what?
Like the dinosaurs, they took to hiding behind furniture only to appear when no-one is looking.
2. Do you prefer Mark One Assimilation (beam you away and insert implants manually and probably surgically) or Mark Two Assimilation (inject you with nanoprobes and manufacture implants using metal from hammerspace)? As a plot device, I mean, not as the way you'd prefer to be assimilated. :)
I like the kind where they stick drills in people's eyes.
3. Can you think of a reason why Andorians' antennae never moved in TOS? Was it bred out of the genepool, or is it a trick that only certain Andorians can do, akin to wiggling ears?
I can think of a reason. I'm not going to tell the likes of you though.
4. Regardless of the way the dictionary says it, do you prefer "few-tile" or "few-till?"
We are the English language. Pronunciation is irrelevant. We will add your phonemic and etymological distintiveness to our own. Resistance is sucky.
5. Do you think Voyager really had an aero-shuttle? Why didn't they use it? Was it in the plans but never made, or were some crucial parts going to arrive "next Tuesday" and Janeway had to leave with an incomplete ship because of the Maquis threat?
The original script had it that due to a specification error it was actually constructed from a hardwood, though it was still perfectly usable. However, Robert Beltran insisted that there was only room for one oak yacht on the show, and so the wooden aeroshuttle was quietly consigned to oblivion.
6. Is it really reasonable that there are only X torpedoes on Voyager? Surely they can replicate casings and trade for antimatter with other spacefaring races, right?
They only really needed a shell and an engine. The other two components of a photon torpedo are actually a redshirt and an exploding rock, which is much cheaper than all that antimatter malarky and just as effective.
7. Would you have prefered Ro Laren to have starred on DS9 instead of Kira, as was in the original plans?
That could have been interesting. It was only later in the series that I started to like Kira. Plus, her and Worf could have gone around making End-D in-jokes the whole time to really irritate the snot out of everyone else.
8. Are you a Wesley/Lefler shipper?
Wesley and the Traveler totally had a thing going on. Lefler was just a rebound thing.
9. You think Captain Bateson was still in command of the Bozeman in First Contact, or was he swapping drinks with Scotty on Wrigley's Pleasure Planet?
He was actually transferred to Starfleet Intelligence not long after coming into the 24th century. I'll leave you to guess what his motto is.
10. Do you disregard all mention of lasers and lithium crystals and Vulcanians and time-warp factors in the early episodes of TOS, or do you think that they really were in a transition period in the mid-2260s?
Actually, that's the true Star Trek for me. It's everything since that I've been having to adjust for.
11. Those STTMP uniforms really did stink, didn't they?
Advances in self-cleaning fabrics in the 23rd century meant that washing clothes was no longer necessary, so that statement is entirely incorrect. In 2270 there was a major improvement in the technology that meant the tendency for such garments to tear very easily under certain conditions was entirely removed, and I think we can all agree that that was most certainly a good thing.
12. You think that Commodore is still a valid rank in the 24th century?
Commodores are pretty much outdated by that point, so I definitely support Starfleet's decision to rename the rank to Acorn.
13. Should Picard have retired to serve as Commandant of Starfleet Academy and given the Enterprise to Riker a long time ago? I think so.
Nonsense. Would Holmes have let Watson take over his detective schtick? It's just inconcievable.
14. You think Riker's ticked off that Janeway made Admiral before he did? They are in the same class, you know.
I think the fact that he cultivated a beard way before Janeway ever did speaks volumes, although to be fair Janeway does wear it far better.
15. You really think it would've been an "unheroic dead" if Soran had just shoot Kirk in the back, like it was originally shot?
Surely hitting Kirk as he was standing in profile to Soran would have made more sense? Bigger target, and all that.
16. If there was one Trek game that Paramount decided to market in real life, which game? Taking out Fizzbin as insanely complicated, would you prefer Parrises Squares, Kalto, Anbo-jytsu, Tongo, Dabo, what?
Fizzbin? Too complicated? Mornington Crescent has been played for hundreds of years, you know, and compared to that Fizzbin is a doddle to learn, so frankly that's a very silly thing to say. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if you started trying to double-jump a Bloomsbury Special widdershins across the Circle Line on the second Tuesday of an even-numbered month, you crazy fool!

[Nate the Great]

Hey, a Dilbert reference! Can't have enough of those.

A game more complicated than Fizzbin? Preposterous. As I saw it, every card had a different worth depending on the cards that are dealt before and after it, potentially leading to millions of combinations.

But Holmes wasn't grooming Watson to take over. I thought that a major purpose of having a first officer in the first place is to give them that last little bit of polish before they take commands of their own.

[e of pi]

1. What do you think really happened to the Xindi in the hundred years before Kirk? Are they still there and we just never saw one, or were they assimilated by the Borg when no one was looking, or what?
I think the Xindi spent the meantime is fractured divisions and only in the 24th century got back together as a coallition unified enough to apply to the Federation. They actually fought on our side in the Dominion war when you weren't looking.
2. Do you prefer Mark One Assimilation (beam you away and insert implants manually and probably surgically) or Mark Two Assimilation (inject you with nanoprobes and manufacture implants using metal from hammerspace)? As a plot device, I mean, not as the way you'd prefer to be assimilated. :)
Well, I'd say I'd prefer Mark II, but of course they sent me back from an era when we only had Mar...am I still typing this? I am aren't I? YOU NEVER SAW THIS!
3. Can you think of a reason why Andorians' antennae never moved in TOS? Was it bred out of the genepool, or is it a trick that only certain Andorians can do, akin to wiggling ears?
Either of those work, but I prefer that they've always been able to do it and the ones we saw were just camera shy and literally froze up.
4. Regardless of the way the dictionary says it, do you prefer "few-tile" or "few-till?"
Pronunciation is irrelevant. Assimilation is useless no matter how we say it. Losers.
5. Do you think Voyager really had an aero-shuttle? Why didn't they use it? Was it in the plans but never made, or were some crucial parts going to arrive "next Tuesday" and Janeway had to leave with an incomplete ship because of the Maquis threat?
Maybe. I like the Aeroshuttle, and that makes sense.
6. Is it really reasonable that there are only X torpedoes on Voyager? Surely they can replicate casings and trade for antimatter with other spacefaring races, right?
As I recall from Ex-astris-scientia.org, they pretty had to have been. They used up their supply and still kept firing.
7. Would you have prefered Ro Laren to have starred on DS9 instead of Kira, as was in the original plans?
No. I like it as-is.
8. Are you a Wesley/Lefler shipper?
I like Lefler as a character, and think she could have done better.
9. You think Captain Bateson was still in command of the Bozeman in First Contact, or was he swapping drinks with Scotty on Wrigley's Pleasure Planet?
Unlike Scott, Bateson had his crew and company to fit in with. I like to think they got trained up, then given milk runs until they got used to the new tech, then rejoined the fleet in general. So, yeah, he's still in the center seat.
10. Do you disregard all mention of lasers and lithium crystals and Vulcanians and time-warp factors in the early episodes of TOS, or do you think that they really were in a transition period in the mid-2260s?
*fingers in ears* lalalalalala...I can't hear you. They were really saying phasers and dilithium and Vulcans and warp drive the whole time. We just weren't hearing it right.
11. Those STTMP uniforms really did stink, didn't they?
12. You think that Commodore is still a valid rank in the 24th century?
13. Should Picard have retired to serve as Commandant of Starfleet Academy and given the Enterprise to Riker a long time ago? I think so.
14. You think Riker's ticked off that Janeway made Admiral before he did? They are in the same class, you know.
Yes, no, no, and just a bit. He envies her rank, but isn't eagre to give up command of the Titan just yet.
15. You really think it would've been an "unheroic dead" if Soran had just shoot Kirk in the back, like it was originally shot?
Yeah, a bit.
16. If there was one Trek game that Paramount decided to market in real life, which game? Taking out Fizzbin as insanely complicated, would you prefer Parrises Squares, Kalto, Anbo-jytsu, Tongo, Dabo, what?
3D chess, the Vulcan one with the pegs, and Dom-jot.<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

[mudshark]

Hey, a Dilbert reference! Can't have enough of those.
Where?


10. Do you disregard all mention of lasers and lithium crystals and Vulcanians and time-warp factors in the early episodes of TOS, or do you think that they really were in a transition period in the mid-2260s?
*fingers in ears* lalalalalala...I can't hear you. They were really saying phasers and dilithium and Vulcans and warp drive the whole time. We just weren't hearing it right.
So, a UT malfunction, then.

[Nate the Great]

PHJ: Like the dinosaurs, they took to hiding behind furniture only to appear when no-one is looking.

My mind immediately jumped to Bob the Dinosaur when I read that. Remember Dilbert's program that said that it was statistically impossible for ALL of the dinosaurs to have gone extinct, so they're just hiding?

I'm kinda bummed by all of the Lefler bashing. I liked her and Lefler's Laws. They were cool!

[e of pi]

Darn right they were! A quote for everything and everything with it's quote. Her developement in the New Frotier novels was also interesting, if in that odd, yet, in some ways, typical, Peter David style. Man, that does not parse well...

[mudshark]

I'm kinda bummed by all of the Lefler bashing. I liked her and Lefler's Laws. They were cool!

Who was bashing Lefler? You asked about 'shipping.

[PointyHairedJedi]

My mind immediately jumped to Bob the Dinosaur when I read that.
Aww yeah. My other favourite Bob the Dinosaur joke is in a series of strips where the Pointy-Haired Boss mistakes him for a COBOL programmer and he replies "Yeah, I get that a lot."

[Nate the Great]

This is the "complete" set of mentioned laws, direct from Memory Alpha. I can't help but think that I remembered there being more mentioned onscreen, though.

1: You can only count on yourself.
17: When all else fails, do it yourself.
36: You gotta go with what works.
46: Life isn't always fair.
91: Always watch your back.
103: A couple of light years can't keep good friends apart. (Wesley Crusher suggested adding this)

Nothing ostentatious, just simple laws of human nature and universal reality that can hardly be disputed. I wonder which number the equivalent of the Galordan Core Motto and Rule of Acquisition 285 is. "No good deel ever goes unpunished." That one seems like it'd be the subject of another theorem: Nate's Rule of Parallel Axiom Development. What, I can't name my own theorem after myself? :)

[mudshark]

Well, yeah, but your humility goes right out the window.

[Nate the Great]

Humility? What is this "humility" of which you speak? My UT must be on the fritz. :)

[e of pi]

Lemme see that...well no wonder. That's no UT, it's a space station, er, spoon. Sorry, easy mistake.

[Zeke]

Let me get this straight. You were looking for humility from "Nate the Great"?

[mudshark]

Seriously? No, but how often do you see me being serious, anyway?

I mean, really... http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g223/mudshark58/smilies/icon_mrgreen.gif

[Nate the Great]

You present a valid point, Zeke. But hey, I didn't come up with "Nate the Great." I was raised on the classic Nate the Great children's books. Anyone else a fan of that pancake-loving sleuth? That's how an eight-year-old could know about the name Nate. Before that I was either Nathaniel (pronounced by my equally immature friends as "nat-an-ee-ell") or Nathan (which I've hated ever since as a demeaning and childish name). I read the Nate the Great books and adopted the name Nate as my own. My family took to calling me Nate the Great in jest. Before I started fiving my online moniker was either Infinite Improbability (big h2g2 fan, that's where this forum name comes from) or Triforce (big Zelda freak).

But hey, accusations of egotism and pride are entirely justified. I even designed a specialized way to sign "NTG" all over the place.

PS: There is a nate-the-great.com, but that's not me. Never been in Little League. Nor am I the rapper. Come on, does this look like the face of a rapper?

[Nate the Great]

Okay, how do you actually insert images into the message? That looks so spiffy. Yes, I am that much of a cornball to use words like "spiffy." Also "neato," "jeepers," and "shazam." That last one has a different purpose, though. ;)

[Zeke]

You need to have them uploaded someplace else. Then you can use BBCode or HTML to display them in the usual manner... or to display Naruto yaoi, if you're careless like that one guy.

I had no idea your name was a reference to something. That's cool.

Nathaniel, eh? Anyone ever call you Bartholomew?

[Sa'ar Chasm]

That one seems like it'd be the subject of another theorem: Nate's Rule of Parallel Axiom Development. What, I can't name my own theorem after myself?

Sa'ar's Law of Situational Entropy: Inconvenience tends to a maximum (put another way, the universe conspires to annoy me.)

The great thing about this law is that every case is the trivial case. If it's a serious annoyance, it's covered by some other law.

[mudshark]

...or Nathan (which I've hated ever since as a demeaning and childish name).
Oh, I don't know. There was a Biblical prophet named Nathan, and a son of King David, too. There's Nathan Hale, and a place in Coney Island called Nathan's which is considered by some to have the best hot dogs on the planet. Nathan also just happens to be most of my name.

"Spiffy" is a nifty and useful word, but no one has ever called me Bartholomew.

Sa'ar: It isn't all about you; the Universe is an Equal-Opportunity Annoyance.

[Nate the Great]

Of course there are many notable and distinguished Nathans and Nathaniels. Nathaniel Hawthorne comes to mind in addition to the prophet Nathan, Nathan Hale and the apostle Nathanael/Bartholemew .

No, Z, no one's ever called me Bartholemew. I've known a couple of them, but The Simpsons has sort of spoiled me on Bart and it's variants.

I guess I can't insert images, then. I have no homepage to speak of. I suppose these days MSN would let me store photos, but I've never bothered to check. How do you guys like my mug? Hardly a stretch to imagine me to be a Trekkie and video game freak, huh?

[mudshark]

I guess I can't insert images, then. I have no homepage to speak of. I suppose these days MSN would let me store photos, but I've never bothered to check.
http://photobucket.com/

It's easy. It's free. :)

[e of pi]

I'll vouch for that.

[Nate the Great]

Sorry, but that seems a little too easy. There's always a catch. If the cost isn't monetary, it must be piles of spam, cans of computer worms, or something like that. I'm cynical. Prove me wrong. I'm glad to admit that I'm wrong if I actually am and it means that the world is a better place than I thought.

[Zeke]

Speaking of Nathan Hale, people have suggested that his name be used as a nickname for the asterisk. Why? Because he regretted that he had but one asterisk for his country....

[mudshark]

Ba-da-bum!

Still, that's probably more fit for general consumption than Kurt Vonnegut's use of the asterisk in Breakfast of Champions and subsequent works.


Nate, I haven't experienced a discernible increase in Spam, nor have I acquired any worms by the can or other unit of measure. Yeah, there are ads but, aside from this Five-Minute place and a few other similarly ad-free havens, those are everywhere.

[Nate the Great]

To change to a lighter topic, does everybody know the stance the makers of SPAM have taken on the modern definition? It's actually okay, as long as you always capitalize the whole thing if you mean the food.

What I'd like to know is how the word got associated in the first place.

[mudshark]

Spam history (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spamming#History)

I'm not sure about Hormel's official position on the subject.

[Nate the Great]

Um, the official stance is right there in that link. To quote:

"Hormel Foods Corporation, the makers of SPAM luncheon meat, do not object to the Internet use of the term "spamming." However, they do ask that the capitalized word "SPAM" be reserved to refer to their product and trademark. [10] By and large, this request is obeyed in forums which discuss spam—to the extent that to write "SPAM" for "spam" brands the writer as a n00b."

It's that "n00b" that irks me. I prefer "newbie," but I'm told that there are people who use quite different definitions for the two. That's an odd thing about me. I know all about Leet, but I never use it, even though I also proudly call myself both a nerd and a geek. I guess I'm one of those "english purists." I'll rant about farther vs. further all day, and yet I still use corruptions like "till." For that matter, I still try to use the word "gal," even though I am told repeatedly that the feminine form of "guy" these days is (prepare to be shocked!) "guy." That's alliterative.

I'm still wondering whether my shazam joke was understood and dismissed or just ignored. Come on, it was a subtle joke that I was Captain Marvel! Am I preaching to an empty room, or did the joke just leave a rotten taste in people's ears? Savor that joke, why doncha?

[PointyHairedJedi]

Sorry, but that seems a little too easy. There's always a catch. If the cost isn't monetary, it must be piles of spam, cans of computer worms, or something like that. I'm cynical. Prove me wrong. I'm glad to admit that I'm wrong if I actually am and it means that the world is a better place than I thought.
Photobucket is pretty good, actually. I even got myself a paid account, and I've never had any trouble with it at all.

[catalina_marina]

1. What do you think really happened to the Xindi in the hundred years before Kirk? Are they still there and we just never saw one, or were they assimilated by the Borg when no one was looking, or what?
Maybe they were wiped out, like predicted.

2. Do you prefer Mark One Assimilation (beam you away and insert implants manually and probably surgically) or Mark Two Assimilation (inject you with nanoprobes and manufacture implants using metal from hammerspace)? As a plot device, I mean, not as the way you'd prefer to be assimilated. :)
Mark one, I guess.

3. Can you think of a reason why Andorians' antennae never moved in TOS? Was it bred out of the genepool, or is it a trick that only certain Andorians can do, akin to wiggling ears?
Er, I just blame that on the budget. Mostly becaus I never actually watched TOS.

4. Regardless of the way the dictionary says it, do you prefer "few-tile" or "few-till?"
Few-tile.

5. Do you think Voyager really had an aero-shuttle? Why didn't they use it? Was it in the plans but never made, or were some crucial parts going to arrive "next Tuesday" and Janeway had to leave with an incomplete ship because of the Maquis threat?
I've never heard anything about an aero-shuttle... So I guess they didn't have one.

6. Is it really reasonable that there are only X torpedoes on Voyager? Surely they can replicate casings and trade for antimatter with other spacefaring races, right?
I don't think they'd sell weapons that easily. And I guess it might take time to replicate them.

7. Would you have prefered Ro Laren to have starred on DS9 instead of Kira, as was in the original plans?
I probably would have when I watched Enterprise and no DS9, although I'm not sure Ro Laren was there yet, back then.

8. Are you a Wesley/Lefler shipper?
Wesley/who now?

[QUOTE]9. You think Captain Bateson was still in command of the Bozeman in First Contact, or was he swapping drinks with Scotty on Wrigley's Pleasure Planet?
Sounds like TOS.

10. Do you disregard all mention of lasers and lithium crystals and Vulcanians and time-warp factors in the early episodes of TOS, or do you think that they really were in a transition period in the mid-2260s?
Er...

11. Those STTMP uniforms really did stink, didn't they?
I wouldn't know.

12. You think that Commodore is still a valid rank in the 24th century?
No.

13. Should Picard have retired to serve as Commandant of Starfleet Academy and given the Enterprise to Riker a long time ago? I think so.
No. Picard, like Kirk, liked being a captain, I think.

14. You think Riker's ticked off that Janeway made Admiral before he did? They are in the same class, you know.
Probably.

15. You really think it would've been an "unheroic dead" if Soran had just shoot Kirk in the back, like it was originally shot?
Yup.

16. If there was one Trek game that Paramount decided to market in real life, which game? Taking out Fizzbin as insanely complicated, would you prefer Parrises Squares, Kalto, Anbo-jytsu, Tongo, Dabo, what?
Didn't they already market 3D-chess? I still want to know the rules to that.

[PointyHairedJedi]

I'd make a joke about strapping you to a chair and conditioning you with a whirly-light machineamajig until you not only watch TOS of your own volition but then proclaim it to be your favourite series of the lot, but you just wouldn't get it. :(

[catalina_marina]

I guess I don't, but if you can provide me with TOS, you can strap me to a chair to watch it any time. And I don't care how wrong the previous statement sounded.

[Nate the Great]

Bateson is not TOS, exactly. Sure, he's from TOS times, but we see him in TNG after he spends a year stuck in Groundhog Day. Okay, it's a temporal causality loop, but it's the same thing. Played by Kelsey Grammer, plenty of people have made Frasier/Bateson jokes, so I'm not gonna bother.

Basic Biography of Morgan Bateson
Note: As we only saw and spoke to him for under five minutes in canonical Trek, most of this is from the excellent book Ship of the Line.

Morgan Bateson is the captain of the Soyuz-class USS Bozeman. Soyuz-class is kinda like Miranda-class (think Reliant) only without a sensor strip and a longer engineering deck in the back, plus a few sensor pods added to the sides. In 2278 (Towards the end of the second five-year mission of the Enterprise 1701) it was sucked into a temporal rift. For the next ninety years he hung out in Puxatawney with Phil Connors, Jack O'Neill, Teal'c, Xena, Gabrielle, and Autolycus. :)

After emerging from the rift and almost smashing into the Enterprise-D, the Bozeman crew decided to stick together, get reeducated in the innovations of the twenty-fourth century, and return to service. The original Bozeman was destroyed by the Borg cube in First Contact, and a Bozeman-A was built. Bateson also reconnected with Scotty (they were old friends, and a crewman from the Enterprise had just barely transferred to the Bozeman) and they helped design and test the Enterprise-E. In fact, for a little while there he got a little obsessed and planned to command the E-E. But that's another story...

[Zeke]

What I liked best about Ship of the Line is that Bateson finally made a point I'd been waiting to hear someone make for years: why do we want the Klingons as allies? These are people whose whole society revolves around violence and bloodshed. Assassination is a legitimate career track in the Klingon fleet. They're absolute bastards and they kill people's sons. Obviously these points can be answered, but it was high time they were at least raised.

[ijdgaf]

It's all about tolerance.

I was always waiting for an allegory involving the Klingons, a sex-based race, and a media-based race.

And a child-based race that did nothing but watch the media-based race all day.

[Nate the Great]

Why do we want the Klingons as allies? Think about them in comparison to the other major powers in the quadrant, then tell me that the Klingons aren't the best bet to becoming the next member of the Federation.

Klingons: They party hearty. They believe in family values. They avenge crimes. They don't spend all of their time looking around corners and behind their back seats for members of the Tal Shiar or Obsidian Order. They have the hearts of poets. Sure, they fight and pillage, but they have a code of honor that prevents assasination and back-stabbing. Heck, anyone who's a Shakespeare fan can't be ALL bad.

Romulans: They believe that the state is infallable, that anyone and everyone is inferior to them (even the genetically identical Vulcan race). They have no problem with back-stabbing. They never looked ahead. Consider the Romulan/Klingon alliance. They gave away the secret of cloaking technology just to get some ships? This is a race so consumed with the ratrace of today that they can't be depended upon to worry about their future.

Cardassians: An entire race of second-guessers and backstabbers. The Obsidian Order has infiltrated the society so much that everyone just admits that they're living under a microscope. They're so deluded that in the same breath that they claim genetic superiority they complain about the cold and want to go to the sauna.

[Derek]

I always figured with the Klingons it was one of those "Keep your friends close..." things.

I've also always wondered what happened to Bateson prior to the Ent-D. What did he keep running into and exploding with before the Ent-D was similarly trapped?

[Nate the Great]

Easy as pie. He was stuck in that loop for eighty years or so. The E-D was stuck for like two weeks. Maybe Bill Nye can help with...The Calculator of Science!

80 yrs=30000 days, give or take.
2 wks=15 days, give or take. Hey, I'm an engineer, not a mathematician.

30000/15=the timeflow rate for the Bozeman was 6000 times more than that of the Enterprise. This may mean that even though the Enterprise was a safe distance away (I jolly well hope so, given all the weird stuff they've already encountered around spatial rifts), the Bozeman was going so fast relative to them that there wasn't time.

[catalina_marina]

I don't think Star Trek believes in relativity.

[MaverickZer0]

I don't think Star Trek believes in time, period.

[ijdgaf]

Franchises can possess beliefs now? Sweet.

[Nate the Great]

Maybe Trek doesn't believe in time, but time believes in it. Here we are, forty years after the saga began.

On a sidenote, when do you think they'll attempt the next series? I hope they don't connect the likelihood of the next series with the sucess or failure of Star Trek XI.

[catalina_marina]

I wonder more about *what* the next series will be, if anything, then when it will be. It seems like they've done everything now. Except maybe something around a different species, but I doubt they'd do that.

[ijdgaf]

The next series, before anything else, will be accessable. Or it will fail.

That's the bottom line, and that's certainly how the studio is seeing it.

I imagine, concept-wise, it won't be all-together different than TOS, TNG, and ENT. People on a ship.

[Nate the Great]

I hope they learned that lesson. Accessability is crucial.

[whoiam]

So, what, they'll be offering free wheelchair ramps with every pilot episode or something?

[Nate the Great]

Even if they did, they'd probably clash with the rest of my stuff.

[PointyHairedJedi]

Will the wheelchair ramps be made of jello?

[Nate the Great]

With or without fruit suspended in it? :)

[mudshark]

*gasp*

You're a Lutheran, aren't you?

[Nate the Great]

Okay, you just may have stumped me. How do I turn that into a joke without treading on a LOT of toes?

Okay, here we go. Gas mask on, phasers on stun, Kevlar zipped up.

A. Lutheranism aside, I am Minnesotan, and one stereotype (still basically applicable in farming communities, though not in the metro) is the use of exotic add-ons to Jello.
B. For the record, I'm not Lutheran. I shouldn't be ashamed of saying what I am, but this is a public forum. E-mail for elaboration.
C. I actually don't like Jello. The harder edges creep me out and I find them a little gross.

[mudshark]

Didn't mean for it to become a big deal. I probably wouldn't have said anything at all if I hadn't recently read through a whole list of Lutheran jokes -- more than a few involving Jello (some with fruit and other bits suspended therein) -- passed to me by... that's right... a Lutheran.

Sorry. Forget any of it ever happened. (waves hand) You don't need to see his identification. These aren't the droids you're looking for.

[Nate the Great]

The Jedi Mind trick can be very reliable. It really is amazing how many people there are in the real world that are so simple minded that a simple variant of the JMT will actually work. Not necessarily a hand wave, but more of a query about something in the distance that's absolutely inconsequential. The other person's mind will quietly follow this algorithm:

1. What in the distance?
2. What about it is important?
3. How does this apply to the current topic?
4. It doesn't, so he must mean something else.
5. Repeat 1-4 until all likely objects are rejected as the intended target.
6. Fail to come up with something clever.
7. Nod and smile, mumbling something positive.
8. Fail to recall original topic.

Lather, rinse, repeat as needed.

[MaverickZer0]

FiveMinute forae is a somewhat condensed version of that. It explains why one must check the original page to figure out the point of the topic.

See how many jokes you can spot!

[Derek]

Didn't mean for it to become a big deal. I probably wouldn't have said anything at all if I hadn't recently read through a whole list of Lutheran jokes -- more than a few involving Jello (some with fruit and other bits suspended therein) -- passed to me by... that's right... a Lutheran.
Lutheran jokes? I love Lutheran jokes! Where's the list?

Okay, okay, I don't actually know any Lutheran jokes, but I can make one up:

Q: How do you know a Lutheran has been by your house?
A: There are papers nailed to your front door.

Er, hm. Might need some work.

[Nate the Great]

Q: What's a Minnesota Millionaire?
A: A Norwegian with a safe-deposit box full of lutefisk.

An oldie but goodie.

[mudshark]

Lutheran jokes? I love Lutheran jokes! Where's the list?


I'll have to dig it up -- it isn't where I thought it was. Meanwhile...

You might be a Lutheran, if... (http://www.oldlutheran.com/humor/ymbali1.shtml)

(Note: there seem to be two 'Page 2's to this, just so you know, eh?)

[Nate the Great]

You could apply most of that list to "old-school" Minnesotans.

In Minnesota we pronounce it "Luthrun."

I can actually pronounce "Silent Night" in German. I once had a very zealous choir director. She made us sing in German and French as well as English.

McLefsa. Groan. In case some of the viewers don't know what lefse is, it's basically rubbery pancakes rolled up in powdered sugar and butter. I'm simplifying.

[mudshark]

I can actually pronounce "Silent Night" in German.
You mean "Stille Nacht, heilige nacht"? ;)

[Nate the Great]

Yeah. You don't know difficult singing until you sing it in a choir. I have no formal singing training, so even though people call me a "tenor" I have no idea what that really means. The choir director tried to teach me, but to me it sounded like she wanted me to sing off-key (at least off my personal key) in a foreign language (German and French) to an imaginary line of music (the tenor part). Maybe she should've just put a bow tie on me and made me juggle on a big rubber ball while she was at it.

[PointyHairedJedi]

All I know of Lutherans I have learned from Garrison Keillor.

[mudshark]

You could do worse.

[PointyHairedJedi]

I'm so annoyed that we only get half of every A Prarie Home Companion. Thank Zod for the internet!

[Nate the Great]

Which half? The musical half or the monologue half? There is a difference.

[PointyHairedJedi]

A mix of the two.

[Nate the Great]

That's odd. How sad it must be to hear "It's been a quiet week in Lake Wobegon" without "That's the news in Lake Wobegon." Almost like having your transmogrifier gun jam after only one use.

[PointyHairedJedi]

I've yet to hear a conclusion to a single one of the adventures of Guy Noir. :(

[Nate the Great]

Basically it's a variant of:

"In a city that knows how to hide its secrets, one man is still trying to find the answers: Guy Noir, Private Eye."

There, I spoiled it for you. I feel so evil.

[PointyHairedJedi]

Great, I just lost my last reason to live. :(

[Chancellor Valium]

^Nonsense! What about winding up all these hew-mons?

[PointyHairedJedi]

That was good for about a decade or so, but I've just plum run out of ideas.

[Nate the Great]

And I've just run out of comprehension. Whata-whatnow?

[Chancellor Valium]

That was good for about a decade or so, but I've just plum run out of ideas.

What about corruption and political intrigue? Or fiddling with the timeline?

[mudshark]

But what to do after breakfast? What then?

[Nate the Great]

Now that reference deserves a trophy.

[PointyHairedJedi]

I hereby nominate mudshark for next year's ZIING! Award. Zeke will probably win it again, though, like he always does.

[Nate the Great]

Depends on who gives it out.

If we're talking zings in fivers, he's been reigning champion ever since the first fiver:

Mark: You know, honey, they say a fool and her dog are soon parted.
Janeway: So what? Bye now.

Classic fiver humor.