Note

[Zeke]

I had to move from one part of my residence to another (much better) part a couple of days ago. This is the main reason I've been so quiet the last couple of weeks (though it doesn't go back farther than that... there are other excuses I could go through, of course).

As a result, I have no net access at the moment. It should be back in a couple of days, at which point I'll hopefully have finished the long-overdue update I've been working on.

[Nate the Great]

You must have a fun desk. The IN box, the OUT box, and the EXCUSE box. :)

[mudshark]

I thought it was IN, OUT and SOON.

I've been wrong before, though. I can deal.

[Nate the Great]

If it was that way, he'd be confused all the time, because the Glossary clearly states that "soon" means "not soon" and hence, vice versa, "not soon" means "not 'not soon'" and the nots cancel out. :)

[Celeste]

You're making my head hurt again...

[Nate the Great]

(Starts to rub hands together gleefully in the manner of Jim Carrey in Batman Forever) Then my eeeeeeeeevil plan is working. Mwahahahahaha! There really are times when there is nothing more therapeutic than a good bout of maniacal laughter. :cool:

[mudshark]

If it was that way, he'd be confused all the time, because the Glossary clearly states that "soon" means "not soon" and hence, vice versa, "not soon" means "not 'not soon'" and the nots cancel out. :)

Yes, sir. Will that be Blithering or Non-... never mind -- come right this way, sir!

[Nate the Great]

Wait a second, this straightjacket clashes with the decor! Waiter, waiter!

[catalina_marina]

I thought it was IN, OUT and SOON.
SOON being a linear superposition of IN and OUT?

[mudshark]

You know, I think that might be it.

[Nate the Great]

Was that a Golgafrincham Captain quote?

[mudshark]

Was what a Golgafrinchan Captain quote?

[Nate the Great]

mudshark: You know, I think that might be it.

Brings to mind:

Golgafrincham Captain (upon realizing that the B Ark of useless middlemen was sent off into space first): I'm sure that there was a reason.
Ford: You're all a load of useless bloody loonies!
Captain: Yes! That was the reason!

Okay, so it's not an EXACT reference, but that's what was brought to mind. Let me compare it to a quote I once wrote for a fiver-like MST of a Yu-gi-oh episode:

Yugi: Why do I think that this isn't gonna end well?
Yami: You're smarter than the average lima bean?
Yugi: That might be it.

As If! (basically Five-Minute Yu-gi-oh) (http://www.angelfire.com/anime2/darkgatomon/AsIf.html)

[Chancellor Valium]

So, to conclude...Zeke swiped Schrodinger's In-Tray?

[Zeke]

Possibly. Nobody saw me, so I may or may not have actually done it.

[Nate the Great]

Vroomfondel: I demand that demarkation MAY or MAY NOT be the problem.

[Chancellor Valium]

So...You demand clearly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty?

@Z: You did and you didn't in simultaneous superposition, surely? In which case, you're nicked. :D

[Gatac]

Werner Heisenberg is stopped after speeding. The cop walks up to his car and says "Sir, do you know how fast you were going?" Heisenberg smiles and says "No, but I know exactly where I am."

In the same vein:

Dresden Codak! (http://dresdencodak.com/cartoons/dc_014.htm)

Gatac

[catalina_marina]

Quantum stuff is fun, as long as you don't need to do anything formally.

mudshark: You know, I think that might be it.

Brings to mind:

Golgafrincham Captain (upon realizing that the B Ark of useless middlemen was sent off into space first): I'm sure that there was a reason.
Ford: You're all a load of useless bloody loonies!
Captain: Yes! That was the reason!

Okay, so it's not an EXACT reference, but that's what was brought to mind.
As If! (basically Five-Minute Yu-gi-oh) (http://www.angelfire.com/anime2/darkgatomon/AsIf.html)
Maybe it's from a different version? I'm not sure that part of the story was in any other versions, but DA has been known to change the story ever so slightly for every version, so that quotes aren't quite correct anymore.

[mudshark]

^ In fact, I knew what Nate was talking about, but I wasn't actually quoting anything or anyone. That was just me replying (as me) to your question above, and was not intended as a reference to anything else.

My "Was what a Golgafrinchan Captain quote?" was merely a response to Nate's habitual (compulsive?) practice of trying to twist even the most simple and direct utterances into something entirely other than what was intended by the utterer.


In the same vein:

Dresden Codak! (http://dresdencodak.com/cartoons/dc_014.htm)

I like it. http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g223/mudshark58/smilies/icon_mrgreen.gif

[catalina_marina]

Oh, I never thought you were quoting anything, really. It's just that it might still be that someone said it somewhere. I was just trying to figure out what Nate was thinking about. :p

[Chancellor Valium]

Oh, I never thought you were quoting anything, really. It's just that it might still be that someone said it somewhere. I was just trying to figure out what Nate was thinking about. :p

Sound and fury.

[Nate the Great]

Signifying nothing.

The scene is from the TV version. Of course all of the versions are slightly tweaked one from the other.

As a sidestory of this phenomenon, I have to express my regret that one altered line that Douglas Adams approved of never made it to the big screen. In the original Hitchhiker's, way back in the late 70s/early 80s, humans were so amazingly primitive that they still thought digital watches were a pretty neat idea. For the movie he indicated that it should be modernized so we were so amazingly primitive that we still thought cellular telephones were a pretty neat idea. It would've tied in very well with the movie storyline, but too bad, so sad.

So I have a habit of trying to sound clever. How else are you going to know that I am? ;)

[Chancellor Valium]

Please don't mention the film.

[Nate the Great]

Why? It's not THAT bad...

[Chancellor Valium]

Yes, yes it is.

[Nate the Great]

You talk as though it's negative six on a scale of ten. I'd argue that it's about...seven. I paid five bucks for my DVD and never regretted it for a second. Of COURSE I'd never pay the full price of twentysomething, but it's...um...can I get back to you? :)

[Chancellor Valium]

Seven? That's minus-seven, right?

[Nate the Great]

Okay, anyone who disses Hitchhiker's in ANY incarnation is pressing my rage button. Please don't make me Hulk out on you:

Nate: You're making me angry. You won't like me when I'm angry.

Besides, I just got these purple pants pressed last week. I'd hate to send your widow/widower the laundry bill.

[Chancellor Valium]

The film is shit.

Deal with it.

[Nate the Great]

So you argue that there is not one single bit of redeeming value? Funny, because I count the following jokes not present in any other form of Hitchhiker's:

The worshippers of the Great Green Arkleseizure sneezing in praise of their creator, and Humma Kavula says, "Bless you."

Arthur: Do you have any ideas, Marv?
Marvin: I have millions of ideas. They all end in certain death.

Arthur: Marvin, can you lend me a hand?

The ENTIRE paddle sequence on Vogsphere.

And as a side benefit, anytime you get to listen to Journey of the Sorcerer is worth something in my book.

[Chancellor Valium]

It's writers deserve death. They ripped out everything that made the Guide unique, and made it into 'yet another *wacky* British movie!!!!!'.

[Nate the Great]

So, to return to a lighter topic, anyone else like unicorn steaks?

[Chancellor Valium]

Too reminiscent of centaur for my tastes.

[Nate the Great]

Tuvix: I love you.
Kes: Isn't that semiadultery or something?
Tuvix: Meh.

CV: I eat centaur steaks.
NTG: Isn't that semicannibalism or something?
CV: Meh.

[Chancellor Valium]

It rather depends whether you prefer leg or breat, I suppose...

[Nate the Great]

Erm, okay...

[Chancellor Valium]

Should have read 'leg or breast'. Apologies for the mistake.

[Nate the Great]

You could've just edited your entry and no one would've been the wiser, you know...

[catalina_marina]

The film is kind of bad though, isn't it? Compared to the books and the BBC audio series anyway... Still, it is tHHGttG... I seem to remember I hated how they portrayed Marvin, but the rest was okay. Oh right, and it was also over too soon. :P

[mudshark]

The film is kind of bad though, isn't it?
I'd not seen it until very recently, but I thought parts of it were quite entertaining.

Yeah, there were a number of things significantly altered from what was in the books (or the TV series, which I only vaguely remember, or the radio dramas, which I've only read bits of the first and none of the second) or omitted entirely, and then there was a bunch of other stuff which was never in any of them, that I can recall (Humma Kavula?! http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g223/mudshark58/smilies/ermm.gif ) Aaand then, there was Marvin's appearance (which I thought was a case of poor judgement) and Zaphod's second head (which was several different kinds of disturbing and wrong) and there were probably some other things I'm not remembering right now.

Even considering all of that, I thought most of it could have believably fit in with what's in the books, somehow or other, and I thought it far from a complete waste of my time.

Go ahead, Valium; I brought my own cross and the nails are right over there. Yes, that's it -- the large mallet. Good! http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g223/mudshark58/smilies/thumbsup.gif

[Sa'ar Chasm]

I loved Bill Nighy as Slartibartfast, and Alan Rickman as the voice of Marvin. There were some bits, though, that could have used more exposition. The background story for the paddles on Vogsphere would have explained a lot, plus they're the source of the joke about why the Vogons' noses are on their foreheads.

[NAHTMMM]

They definitely could have done with a few minutes more. Still, I give them an A+ for effort. Lots of little touches, like the red corded phone at the far end of the Magrathea showroom. And a lot of the changes, I think, were consistent with an honest desire to translate the book well to film. (In particular, the plot point about *ahem* Zaphod's signature was entirely in Adams's style. :D)

I hadn't considered Valium's assertion that it 'looks just like any other wacky British comedy' (I'm paraphrasing). He might have a point, I don't know.

[Nate the Great]

Let me put it this way; on a scale of one to ten:

Radio h2g2: 7. I've read the scripts, and although there are some good bits, the radio-only stuff really had no business being on radio, and the plot DID have a tendency to spiral out of control.
Book h2g2: 9: Has the most gags, and it does hold itself together well.
TV h2g2: 10. For me, the perfect iteration, but only if you pay attention to the minutae that people can miss, particularly during Guide entries.
Movie h2g2: 6: Finally Trillian gets a decent plotline, but Zaphod is too wacky, and...and...they filmed the Mostly Harmless entry, but didn't stick it in! Come on, one minute more! One minute for a CRUCIAL bit of Hitchhiker lore! Oh, and the Nonexistence of God was too good to not put in! They should've chucked Humma Kavula, though. For being the "villain," he didn't get the proper introduction or explanation of his motivations.

[NAHTMMM]

My suspicion is that they didn't include the "Mostly harmless" bit because it would have gone against the theme of the movie. (By which I mean Arthur's little speech while in the "hot seat" near the end.)

It's just a suspicion, of course.

[Nate the Great]

Huh? How are those connected?

[Chancellor Valium]

The film is kind of bad though, isn't it? Compared to the books and the BBC audio series anyway... Still, it is tHHGttG... I seem to remember I hated how they portrayed Marvin, but the rest was okay. Oh right, and it was also over too soon. :P

To be honest, it feels more like Notting Hill to me. Which is why I think it was awful.

[Nate the Great]

Well, while I thought that the new Marvin wasn't as good as TV Marvin, I thought that it was okay. At least they kept the triangle eyes. I suppose the real problem is that the head isn't supposed to droop like that (he's not supposed to be depressed), but I can't see how that robot body could do anything BUT droop the head.

You'll have to explain this Notting Hill thing to me, CV.

[Chancellor Valium]

It's the stereotypical 'wacky British comedy!!!!!!!'.

They're unoriginal, and a rather tripey attempt to inject bland, middle-class British manners into their equally sappy 'boy-meets-girl' US counterparts.

About the only good part is right at the beginning in the bookshop with Dylan Moran.

[Nate the Great]

Notting Hill is wacky? If you're arguing that it's bad that it follows every single B-romantic comedy cliche, well....

I certainly COULD argue that everything about ANY romantic comedy is cliche to some point or other. Consider a basic romantic comedy plot:

A. Introduce the guy and girl. They have some fundamental element that will automatically insert friction into a relationship, even though they're both adorable.
B. They meet cute.
C. Insert typical Three's Company misunderstanding here.
D. Insert well-meaning bungling from secondary characters here.
E. One overhears the other revealing how wonderful they are.
F. They confront the other with the inevitability of their relationship.
G. Glomping ensues.

Tweak it a little bit, and there you go. British, American, whatever.

[Chancellor Valium]

Exactly. That is the primary problem with the Guide film.

[Sa'ar Chasm]

The first time I saw the movie, I was transfixed by the girl playing Trillian.

Then I watched it again and realised she can't act.

[Nate the Great]

Well, I'm not sure I meant that the cliched romantic comedy plot is a bad thing. After all, that's precisely why I prefer romantic comedies to Lord of the Rings or Star Wars. With megaepics you have to use too many brain cells keeping track of the characters, their motivations, how they got from point A to point B so fast, how does character C know about plot point D already, that sort of thing. Lord of the Rings is NOT escapism. The Princess Bride and other "true" classics ARE escapism.

[Chancellor Valium]

Err, wonderful opinions, but that doesn't explain why the Guide should have a sappy romance in it. It doesn't need one. It doesn't need half the crap they shoe-horned into it, in fact.

[Sa'ar Chasm]

Err, wonderful opinions, but that doesn't explain why the Guide should have a sappy romance in it.

*cough* Fenchurch *cough*

[Nate the Great]

Does Fenchurch really count as sappy? Besides, DNA gave you every option to divert that particular plotline, didn't he?

Of course, given that Fenchurch disappeared because she was from a Plural Zone and Arthur didn't, even though he's undoubtedly made ten times the hyperspace jumps she did.

[Chancellor Valium]

*cough* Fenchurch *cough*

Not as sappy as watching thingy Deschanel fail to act.

[Sa'ar Chasm]

Plus Fenchurch got naked.

[Nate the Great]

Hey, Zooey did a fine job. She's supposed to be kooky, that's the whole point of the character. Trillian's got all sorts of issues related to her white knight complex, her being stuck in cubicle heck, being underappreciated for her intelligence, etc. etc.

Fenchurch...although I love the fact that the woman who finally figured out how the world could be made a good and happy place without nailing anyone to anything finally got a bigger share of the pie, she's almost a little TOO kooky. But that's what makes her perfect for Arthur. Besides, any reference to The Importance of Being Earnest, no matter how oblique, is okay in my book. :)

[catalina_marina]

(he's not supposed to be depressed)

Eh?

[PointyHairedJedi]

Nobody is supposed to be depressed (except after seeing Grave of the Fireflies, duh), but I think Marvin was. I'm not sure what Nate was on about either, and how often we get to sing that tune!

[Nate the Great]

I mean what I said. Marvin wasn't supposed to be depressed. He was supposed to be a proper ship's assistant. His personality alters his body language.

[catalina_marina]

That's nice and all, but in the original (you know, the book, by Douglas Adams) he's pretty depressed.

[NAHTMMM]

I think that Nate means that the people who designed him didn't mean for him to be depressed, that something went wrong with his personality. Or else they didn't mean for him to be that depressed.

They ought to have taken a look at the size of their complaints department before they attempted anything as tricky as GPP's, though.

[Wowbagger]

That's nice and all, but in the original (you know, the book, by Douglas Adams) he's pretty depressed.

Actually, the original was the radio show from the BBC.

But the point remains the same: one of his first lines is, indeed, "Oh, God, I'm depressed."

Also: Cave of the Fireflies: hideously depressing.

Why was that brother so fracking stupid? I always want to smack him upside the head for frustrating me and then making me get about as close to crying as I get at movies nowadays.

[catalina_marina]

Yeah, I was wondering whether I was right on that as I typed it. Anyway, it's still made by DA, so it must be right. ;)

[Nate the Great]

Yes, originally we see him depressed. But in-universe, he was built to be all happy, just like all the other computers on the Heart of Gold like the doors and Eddie the Shipboard Computer. Thus a few weeks before the first book started when he was built it was anticipated that he'd be happy, thus his body was designed to be used by a happy person. You don't design a robot body to look depressed. It takes body language to do that.

[Wowbagger]

That's really only an assumption--although one the BBC-produced drama tended to follow, and so I generally agree with it. But, technically, Marvin was programmed with GPP. ("Can you tell?" he asks early on.) Adams seemed to imply as the main thrust of the humor of the scene that this was exactly what the wizards at Sirius Cybernetics Corporation hoped to acheive: a neurotic, manically depressed robot... just like real people!

So I don't criticize the movie for its choice of design. Did anyone else see the original Marvin in the queue scene on Vogsphere? Did someone already mention that?

[Nate the Great]

Of course I saw TV Marvin in the line, incorrect eye colors and all.

Why in the world would you deliberately build a world-weary, depressed android? What could that possibly achieve?

[mudshark]

*very evil snicker*

[Nate the Great]

That's one thing I love about this forum. Only in the warped world of fivers can you get away with a lengthy discussion about h2g2 in a thread that's purportedly about recent events on a webpage with very little in common with h2g2.

[mudshark]

Okay, moving on...

[PointyHairedJedi]

To (mis)quote The Matrix, "There is no topic." It gets much easier when you realise that (which of course I'm sure you all do).

[Nate the Great]

Cue the Jedi Mind Trick, BnG-style. "Darnit, there are no plot holes!"

[Wowbagger]

I think it's shocking that there is *anyone* on the Internet who could have strong opinions about the H2G2 canon... as if there *were* a consistent H2G2 canon!

I wuv you guys. And girls.

[Nate the Great]

Sure there is. The stuff that really matters hasn't changed in any of the formats.

[Wowbagger]

The Secondary Phase ended with Arthur finding out that Zaphod Beeblebrox was responsible for the destruction of Earth due to his involvement with a cult of psychologists. Arthur then store the Heart of Gold, leaving Ford, Zaphod, and Zarniwoop stranded with the man who rules the universe and taking Marvin, Trillian, and Lintilla (a major character never seen in any other format) with him.

This, it would seem to be, is a significant difference.

Indeed, most of the Secondary Phase diverges wildly from the events of Restaurant, although many of its elements were reworked and reused. It's a shame, too, because the fifteen-mile-high statue of Arthur Dent is one of my favorite moments from the series.

Now, you've got the same basic opening in all formats: Earth destroyed by Vogons, Arthur escapes with Ford, "Time is an illusion, lunchtime doubly so," and so forth, but it quickly breaks up. The computer game didn't even remain consistent on this point.

So, no, there is no consistent H2G2 canon. As D.N.A. himself said, "The only two consistent works of Hitchhiker were the original radio programmes and the published version of the scripts from the original radio programmes."

*does the Picard thing with the waist of his shirt and sits back down*

[catalina_marina]

You should realize, though, that all these things aren't being consistent on purpose. DA likes to change the story every so often, I've heard.

[Nate the Great]

That's one way to keep your options open.

[Chancellor Valium]

Liked to do so, anyway.

[Nate the Great]

Ooooh, semantics. Gotta love it.