A new Trek series

[Flying Gremlin]

...yes, you read that right.

http://www.startrek.com/article/new-star-trek-series-premieres-january-2017

Is it too early to call dibs on the pilot?

[NAHTMMM]

This may well be the way "television" will go, from centralized cable and satellite access providers to each "channel" selling access individually online.

Not having been impressed with the franchise's direction since the turn of the millennium, I'm not really excited. (But then I'm not excited for the SW film either.) If something pretty good comes out of this, I'll be happy to get excited then.

[Zeke]

Heheheh. Nice try, Gremlin, but I called dibs on the pilot before it was <i>announced</i>.

(<a href="http://www.fiveminute.net/about/5mf.html">No, really.</a>)

Anyway, I'm tentatively excited about this. As I've mentioned in newsposts, I'm baffled that Paramount didn't capitalize on the (equally baffling) success of the movie and make a new show five years ago.

Beyond "woo, Trek on TV again", however, it would be foolish to say anything at this point. We know literally nothing else. How excited I get will depend on things that won't be decided for a while yet. Above all, it depends on who's behind the new show. If they don't keep at least a <i>little</i> continuity with the Roddenberry era -- make Rick Berman a consultant or something -- I will go in with much less emotional investment.

[Nate the Great]

I reserve all further judgement until I get an answer for the "original universe or Abrams-verse" question.

[Zeke]

Agreed. We really don't know <i>anything</i> until we know that.

My guess is original, by the way. The announcement specifically mentions that there's no connection to the next movie, and while that could still be true of an Abramsverse show, I think stressing the point tells us something about Paramount's current feelings. They really expected better results from Into Darkness -- maybe they're just going to finish the trilogy and write it off.

(Also revealing: the planned line of Abramsverse novels was scrapped. Pocket Books has stuck with the original timeline.)

[Wowbagger]

They really expected better results from Into Darkness -- maybe they're just going to finish the trilogy and write it off.

They just a few weeks ago renegotiated the actors for a fourth movie. So we're getting at least another after Beyond.

[evay]

make Rick Berman a consultant or something

No, no, no.

Zeke, I know how fond you were of the Bs, but Berman and Braga are burned out on Trek. We need fresh blood. We need fresh minds, people who are not going to the same well of storytelling tricks (time travel paradoxes) over and over, people who can create a character and allow that character to grow and change in a realistic fashion, people who are not obsessed with big-breasted pouty-lipped wasp-waisted women. (Yes, Jeri Ryan can act, and quite well. Let's be honest; that's not why she was hired.)

I don't care if it's Roddenberryverse or Abramsverse or Cotoverse or "let's pick a well-written novel off AO3 every week and do that"-verse. But not the Bs.

[Wowbagger]

Traditionally, the way new producers of Trek show continuity with the Roddenberry era without arousing any of the Bermaga hatred is by hiring the Okudas.

Since Enterprise ended, hiring out the Okudas' aura of legitimacy has practically become a cottage industry.

[Flying Gremlin]

Heheheh. Nice try, Gremlin, but I called dibs on the pilot before it was <i>announced</i>.

(<a href="http://www.fiveminute.net/about/5mf.html">No, really.</a>

Rats.

Hey, Zeke, does this chloroformed cloth smell funny to you?

[Flying Gremlin]

So I wonder how much hatred Zeke will have when I say that the announced show runner co-wrote the story that introduced "antimatter radiation"...

[evay]

So I wonder how much hatred Zeke will have when I say that the announced show runner co-wrote the story that introduced "antimatter radiation"...

and he also wrote...

Flesh and Blood
Workforce
Bride of Chaotica
Barge of the Dead
Course: Oblivion
Empok Nor

and "Company Man," widely acknowledged as the best episode of Season 1 of Heroes.

So, lots of funny, moving, powerful, character-driven episodes. I didn't watch Hannibal or Pushing Daisies but they've gotten a lot of love. He also noted in an older EW interview that he'd love to cast Captain Angela Basset and XO Rosario Dawson.

I'm happy with what I'm hearing so far. Who knows — we might even get a series regular who's gay and not stereotyped, who just has a normal life and it's not the focus of the person's characterization.

[Flying Gremlin]

I got to admit, he did write a lot of good episodes. I'm happy for this decision, don't get me wrong. An excuse to bring up "antimatter radiation" though does not come up often.

[Nate the Great]

More details were revealed back in April, apparently. (http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2016/04/13/the-new-star-trek-tv-show-will-be-set-before-the-next-generation)

[Nate the Great]

First look at Star Trek: Discovery.
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqm9HSYbf0o)
Yeah, I'm not enthused about the design of the ship. At all.

[NAHTMMM]

Apparently that was just a rough draft that the designers maybe didn't intend for public release?

[Nate the Great]

Star Trek: Discovery may use Majel Barrett sound clips for the voice of the main computer. (http://nerdist.com/the-late-majel-barrett-may-voice-star-trek-discoverys-computer/)

Yeah, I'm skeptical about the workability of this plan.

[Nate the Great]

The premiere has been pushed back to May 2017. (http://www.vulture.com/2016/09/cbs-pushes-back-star-trek-brings-up-the-good-wife-spinoff.html)

Uh, yeah.

[Nate the Great]

As of three weeks ago (http://variety.com/2016/tv/news/star-trek-discovery-good-wife-spinoff-cbs-all-access-premiere-date-1201860613/) the female lead (who is NOT the captain, they keep emphasizing) wasn't cast.

PNQ: Does anybody else think that if CBS All Access wasn't in the cards the show would be pushed out to September 2017?

[NAHTMMM]

Getting that Access thing going might be causing them to hurry the schedule along, yeah.

[Nate the Great]

More plot details (http://www.slashfilm.com/star-trek-discovery-characters/). A joint Starfleet/Klingon crew, plus we're focusing on people other than the senior staff? That hill is getting steeper all the time...

More info (http://www.digitaltrends.com/movies/star-trek-tv-series-info/). The seasons will be much shorter than usual. The article reiterates that American viewers will need to pay for All Access. Yeah, that's gonna backfire on them when everybody else can just use Netflix.

[Nate the Great]

The reason why Discovery isn't on broadcast TV. (https://www.cinemablend.com/television/1584720/why-star-trek-discovery-is-going-to-be-streaming-only)

To summarize:
* Sci-fi never succeeds on broadcast television. (except for all those sci-fi shows past and present that do succeed because they're actually good)
* It will bring subscribers to All Access. (no it won't)
* They want to have more profanity and sexuality. (i.e. pandering)

Another article rips these excuses apart as well. (http://io9.gizmodo.com/despite-current-glut-of-successful-scifi-shows-cbs-exe-1788962348)

[Nate the Great]

Never mind, I was being negative again.

[Nate the Great]

Michelle Yeoh announced as a cast member (http://uproxx.com/tv/cbs-names-first-star-trek-discovery-star-michelle-yeoh/).

All I've seen her in is Tomorrow Never Dies and I thought she was fine, but that was twenty years ago.

I have no idea how much her acting style has changed, so we'll see.

[Nate the Great]

A recap of everything known so far and the current status of the show (including the Yeoh casting). (http://www.digitaltrends.com/movies/star-trek-tv-series-info/)

[Nate the Great]

More cast members known, as well as the placement in 2255. (http://www.nextbigfuture.com/2016/12/cbs-star-trek-discovery-set-in-four.html)

[NAHTMMM]

People elsewhere are groaning about being sick and tired of Klingons. Personally, I think it'll still all come down to the execution.

[Nate the Great]

Discovery won't be ready for a May premiere (http://www.digitaltrends.com/movies/star-trek-discovery-stuck-in-spacedock/)

Also they've cast somebody as Sarek, and actual production on the show is only starting now.

Also supposedly the premiere date is flexible since the show is being broadcast on All Access. Oh yeah, it's not like you have to coordinate the broadcast of the pilot on CBS or anything (oh, wait...) and it's not like the show is the flagship of All Access (oh, wait...)

There is no official release date now (https://www.inverse.com/article/27032-star-trek-discovery-everything-we-know-timeline-canon-bryan-fuller-klingons)

I am excited that Nicholas Meyer is involved.

The casting of a guy who studies fungus in space confuses me. Even if they've thought of sufficient story possibilities for this, it seems like a job focus that is too narrow for a starship. Maybe a planet that's covered in fungus that can be used for a practical purpose, but not a starship. Can't they just call him an exobotanist or something?

I'm getting concerned at the size of the cast. We've got officers from two ships, AND Sarek, AND three Klingons. I know that some of these will be recurring, but I just don't see the Deep Space Nine-style of balancing act even being attempted these days.

[Nate the Great]

Another recap of currently known information (http://www.inquisitr.com/3931716/star-trek-discovery-what-do-we-know-about-cbs-show-now/)

Sarek is confirmed as a regular. Odd, because I never got the impression that Sarek spent huge amounts of time on starships, only using them as transport between assignments.

[Nate the Great]

Two more cast members. (http://trekmovie.com/2017/01/30/rumor-two-new-cast-members-headed-for-star-trek-discovery/)

I'm getting afraid now. How will the creators fit all of this into one-hour episodes?

A theory that when Discovery arrives, the rest of Trek will leave Netflix. (http://www.cityweekly.net/TheDailyFeed/archives/2017/01/30/the-pipeline-the-star-trek-episode-collectors-dream)

That'd be a shame and catastrophe.

[Nate the Great]

Discovery has a new logo, closer to the TOS one. (http://www.treknews.net/2017/01/31/new-logo-insignia-star-trek-discovery/)

[NAHTMMM]

I like the new logo better.

A fungus guy is handy whenever you need to make puns. I bet he winds up delivering a lot of one-liners in firefights. ;)

[Flying Gremlin]

Maybe the fungus guy will be Egon.

[Nate the Great]

Leaked photo from the set.
(http://www.treknews.net/2017/02/11/first-look-star-trek-discovery-klingons/)
If these are supposed to be Klingons, someone really messed up.

[NAHTMMM]

Yeah, I just hope there will be wigs attached to those brainspines.

[Nate the Great]

No, there's too much detail on the backs of the head to cover with a wig.

[Nate the Great]

Three more cast members. (http://ew.com/tv/2017/02/13/star-trek-discovery-cast/)

Yikes, they'll never fit all of them in, will they?

[Nate the Great]

More cast members.
(http://www.avclub.com/article/star-trek-discovery-adds-few-more-starfleet-charac-250287)
I refer you to one of the comments: "They started shooting 3 weeks ago and they're still casting people? This is gonna suck."

[Nate the Great]

10 "New" Things We Just Learned About Star Trek Discovery (http://www.cheatsheet.com/entertainment/new-things-learned-star-trek-discovery.html/?a=viewall)

Note that the quotation marks were added by me, as few of these qualify as "new." But if you want a roundup of the last month or so of news, you might as well click the link.

[Flying Gremlin]

Well, another delay means fall 2017.

[Nate the Great]

Yeah, I remember when I said that they should've just delayed it until fall and done it properly. I also remember speculating that if CBS All Access wasn't in the cards that's what they'd do.

[Nate the Great]

An article discusses the tradition of pilots featuring cameos (http://redshirtsalwaysdie.com/2017/03/06/will-star-trek-discovery-cameo-previous-trek-series/) from prior series (McCoy on TNG, Picard on DS9, Quark on VOY, Cochrane on ENT) and proposes that T'Pol may make a good equivalent cameo for Discovery.

Yeah, insert anti-Enterprise rant here. I'm not interested in going into it again right now. I'd rather have a scene between T'Pau and Sarek, actually. A new actress that can emulate the original Celia Lovsky, not ENT's Betty Matsushita.

[Nate the Great]

YouTube video recapping known information and summarizing rumors.
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Km5qVwZvjm8)
Go to 5:35 if you want to skip the stuff I've already posted (i.e. the known facts) and go straight to the rumors and speculation.

I was going to recap some of the rumors, but I don't want to get in trouble or be misquoted. Just watch the video; the "rumor" portion is only four minutes long.

[Nate the Great]

Rumors of a Dr. McCoy cameo. (https://moviepilot.com/p/star-trek-discovery-dr-bones-mccoy-cameo/4227936)

I'm just going to copy over one of the comments (disclaimer: I don't necessarily share all of the opinions, etc. etc.):

"This series is "eagerly anticipated"? I wonder by whom? Most of the Trekkies I know are more hand wringing and fretting about the ship and the recently released Klingon photos. It is not looking that great overall. Why would Bones be on this ship and not mention it later in TOS? Not wise. Fake ties to actual trek will be a big fail if they try it. Putting Leonard Nimoy in the Kelvin films did not improve them at all, nor did he give them credibility as being actual Star Trek."

Speculation that the Klingon and Starfleet ships on the show have been mashed into one vessel. (https://www.inverse.com/article/29201-star-trek-discovery-rumor-shenzhou-star-ship-fleet)

Supposedly this'll make it easier to follow all the characters, and also account for the odd design of the Discovery (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqm9HSYbf0o). Yeah, no.

There will be a cadet on the bridge, and its pointed out that "Shenzhou" is a Chinese name. (http://www.hypable.com/star-trek-discovery-analysis-premiere-date/)

Why the Klingons are flying around in a ship with an Earth name is beyond me.

[Nate the Great]

Another roundup of recently revealed information. (http://www.nerdhq.com/what-we-know-star-trek-discovery/)

And another. (http://www.denofgeek.com/uk/tv/star-trek-discovery/37600/star-trek-discovery-new-cast-photo-emerges)

Salient points:

* Discovery coming in late summer/early fall. "Probably." Remember when this was supposed to come out last January? How was that EVER going to work?
* Again someone talks about how traditionally scifi doesn't do well on TV. Um, yeah. So apparently 30 seasons of Star Trek, 5 years of Babylon 5, 4 years of Andromeda, 4 years of Farscape, 3 years of Lost in Space, over 30 years of Dr. Who (including spinoffs), etc. etc. didn't do well on TV. Those were just money pits only kept on the air by insane studio execs!
* Naked aliens and more swear words were specifically mentioned. Ugh.

[Nate the Great]

Speculation that Discovery will include the Treaty of Armens. (https://redshirtsalwaysdie.com/2017/03/30/star-trek-discovery-treaty-armens/)

For those of you who don't recognize the name (I didn't, FYI), the Treaty of Armens (http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Treaty_of_Armens) is the agreement between the Sheliak and the Federation.

You will recall when Picard cut through the red tape and owned a Sheliak captain. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILbLGNDqUxA)

[Nate the Great]

Time for a monthly roundup. You can tell that I'm not enthusiastic about this show, I hadn't noticed that it's been a month.

They're still not ready to announce a premiere date. (http://www.avclub.com/article/star-trek-discovery-will-remain-docked-little-whil-253813)

An actor has been shifted to another role. (http://uproxx.com/hitfix/star-trek-discovery-shazad-latif/)

I'm not the only one with serious doubts (http://io9.gizmodo.com/what-the-fuck-is-going-on-with-star-trek-discovery-1794639961) (not that I approve of the F-bomb).

More cast members announced. (http://www.cbr.com/star-trek-discovery-cast/)

Wikipedia now has 14 cast members listed. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek:_Discovery#Cast_and_characters)
(I'm still dubious about Sarek playing an astrophysicist. Previous canon certainly implied that he was a diplomat from early on.)

[Nate the Great]

Discovery now has 19 cast members announced.
(http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Streaming/Netflix/the-tick/star-trek-discovery/streaming-news-roundup-star-trek-discovery-the-tick-and-more/39014)
I'm getting scared. To get to 19 cast members on Deep Space Nine you had to include the recurring cast members like Kai Winn or Dukat. I get that Discovery is much more serialized, but even so, you shouldn't have more cast members than episodes, right?

I'm not the only one that's worried. (http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2017/05/geekery-star-trek-discovery-ejects-its-warp-core.htmlhttp://)

[Nate the Great]

I had some articles ready to post about what Discovery has to do to succeed (including moving to Netflix for everyone), but I'm tired of negativity for today.

The really depressing part is one article that I found somewhere that says that since Netflix has the show everywhere else, as long as Netflix gets their profit it doesn't matter if it bombs in the United States; they'll order a Season Two.

A Trek show that doesn't air in the United States, what an idea...

[Nate the Great]

Discovery confirmed for a fall debut. (http://trekmovie.com/2017/05/03/star-trek-discovery-back-on-for-fall-cbs-ceo-talks-netflix-importance/)

The articles speculates that the creators didn't want to give a date until the threat of a writer's strike was past.

Furthermore they take the success of the other shows on Netflix as evidence that Discovery can support a different platform.

Insert apples and oranges metaphor and miscellaneous rants on CBS delusion here.

[NAHTMMM]

"This series is "eagerly anticipated"? I wonder by whom? Most of the Trekkies I know are more hand wringing and fretting about the ship and the recently released Klingon photos. It is not looking that great overall."
I can't even be bothered to wring my hands. I'm just rolling my eyes over here.

[Flying Gremlin]

I am not wringing my hands. I am patiently waiting for everything to come up Millhouse.

[Nate the Great]

Discovery crew members will use a variant of the arrowhead symbol (i.e. the Cochrane Delta) on their uniforms. (https://www.inverse.com/article/27487-star-trek-discovery-starfleet-insignia-log-symbol-uniforms-t)

Um, what?

Unlike some other fanon stuff, the existence of a unique chest symbol for each ship in Starfleet during this time period is CANON. The link even shows what the symbols for the other Constitution-class ships were!

An attempt to argue (http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/inconsistencies/uniforms1.htm)that the "different chest symbol for each ship" thing was just an aberration during the time period of the first five-year mission. Yeah, I call shenanigans.

[Nate the Great]

Should we dedicate a separate thread to this new "Orville" show? Because a lot of it will be direct comparisons to Discovery, right?

[Nate the Great]

Discovery fan art. (http://trekmovie.com/2017/05/16/star-trek-discovery-fan-art-has-been-filling-the-void/)

[Nate the Great]

First look trailer. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dxe_ugmIVM)

For the purposes of this post alone, no comparison to any other Trek show allowed.

1. Forcing a fellow officer to trudge through a desert for no particular reason is cruel. It almost seems belittling, like the fellow officer deserves no more respect than a cadet. Why are we supposed to like this captain? And remember, a lot of the ratings depend on us liking the captain.
2. "We have engaged the Klingons." Well, that's just bad grammar. We have engaged a Klingon ship/fleet, we have engaged with Klingon forces, etc.
3. The notion of "screw diplomacy, we have to fight" is simply a bad lesson to introduce the audience to a conflict. We know nothing about these Klingons, what they've done, or whether or not the Discovery is authorized to initiate hostilities. It does seem a bit like pandering: "Don't worry, viewers at home, there's going to be a lot of action!"
4. An alien that can sense the coming of death. Well, that makes for good clickbait for one episode, but I hope he's not a regular, because it'll make problems later on. Either he's going to be sensing deaths with complete accuracy, robbing us of drama, or he can't sense deaths with complete accuracy, which means the viewer is asking why he's there taking up screentime. There's only so many times a viewer will accept that kind of ooga-booga, only for the supposedly doomed person to not die.
5. It was nice to hear the fanfare. (Okay, that was a comparison, but at least it's a positive one for a change.)

[Nate the Great]

A breakdown of the trailer. (http://io9.gizmodo.com/everything-the-discovery-trailer-tells-us-about-the-fut-1795328380)

Okay, NOW I can complain about continuity again.

Gold for Command, Silver for Science, Bronze for Operations. So we're in the mid-2250s according to the studio. Let's move past the fact that "The Cage" already established what the basic design of a Starfleet uniform looked like in this time period. It should be Gold for Command, BLUE for Science, and RED for Operations. Even the Kelvinverse got a detail like this right. Even ENTERPRISE got a detail like this right!

Why weren't the standard TOS uniforms acceptable? It sure would've gone a long way towards cashing in on that TOS nostalgia that Paramount seems to think is the key to success. And isn't that the point: to make money?

[Nate the Great]

I'll just quote a comment here: (https://spaceinvader.me/2017/05/18/star-trek-discovery-the-klingon-question/)

"Unless you are going to negate the previous story lines, etc. & create a new, ‘re-imagined’ Star Trek, you need to follow the basic Trek story & timeline. If ‘Discovery’ is after ‘Enterprise’ & just before TOS, then the Klingons look should look like they did in TOS. But more importantly, Star Trek in whatever form, is at its best when it is story-driven, & when it addresses issues. Makeup & special effects should serve the story, not be the focus of it. Roddenberry didn’t create an ‘adventure’ series. He created a sci-fi series as an avenue to address social, political & moral issues. The idea that the latest incarnation of Star Trek needs to ‘out-FX’ the last version misses the point of what Star Trek is supposed to be & why it exists in the first place."

[Nate the Great]

Fans are told to stop worrying about Discovery fitting into canon. (https://redshirtsalwaysdie.com/2017/05/29/dont-worry-star-trek-discovery-fitting-established-trek-canon/)

Yeah, good luck with that. We were TOLD this is the Prime Universe (http://io9.gizmodo.com/star-trek-discovery-officially-takes-place-in-the-prim-1784196830), therefore we have the right to complain about conflicts.

Easiest way to solve the problems? Declare this to be a universe separate from Prime or Kelvin. Done. No conflict, any similarities are coincidence.

But did they go this route? No, they did not.

Harry Mudd confirmed for nine episodes. (https://www.trektoday.com/content/2017/05/star-trek-discovery-expect-plenty-of-mudd/)

Assuming that they mean that they're all in Season One, that's over half the episodes. I predict comic relief fatigue. Harry's the kind of guy that you can only do once per season, maybe two if a really good script comes along. Remember how NextGen did their best to not overexpose Q?

[Nate the Great]

Why Discovery has to be a reboot (http://redshirtsalwaysdie.com/2017/05/31/star-trek-discovery-reboot/)

They even make a convincing argument that this is the SIXTH reboot, not even the second.

[Flying Gremlin]

So would that article convince you to give Enterprise the time of day?

[Nate the Great]

There's really no right answer to that one...

[Nate the Great]

Another quote you may be interested in... (https://bwspotlight.com/2017/06/01/star-trek-discoverys-latest-woes/)

"Fans were upset enough about the Kelvin timeline (the USS Kelvin is the ship Nero destroyed in the first Abrams movie, creating a splintered timeline) to let CBS ignore it, and I don’t think fans of either timeline are going to accept a new timeline that is pretending to be the main one while acting like the new one and doing things counter to both. Fans are not stupid. They argue this stuff to death and they’ll soon see it as a rejection of both of their continuities. If you don’t like the continuity, CREATE SOMETHING ELSE!"

[Nate the Great]

Nicholas Meyer says that it's still the same continuity, but they've found a niche that allows for some freedom. (http://trekmovie.com/2017/06/02/exclusive-nicholas-meyer-talks-star-trek-discoverys-niche-and-hints-at-another-star-trek-project-2/)

Uh, Nick? No, there isn't freedom. This is the era of "The Cage" and we know what that looks like. It is not a "niche" where new things could happen!

The bizarre thing is, if they wanted something resembling the TOS-era but still have freedom, there's plenty of things that happened in the movie era that we could've explored. The ships and uniforms looked pretty good, too. Assuming that the Monster Maroons entered service in 2278 (incidentally, Memory Beta recognizes this nickname and Memory Alpha does not), events from this era that could be further explored are...

2278: The encounter in the Typhon Expanse between the Klingons and the Bozeman. Have Grammar do voice-overs or logs on screens where his image could be deaged. What was the aftermath?
2280: The Charulhan/Andorian hostage situation as depicted in the novelization of Star Trek V. A key point in the life of Ambassador St. John Talbot, but we wouldn't have to see him, or even make direct references to Star Trek V. Just mention the Charulhans and the Andorians, have a few missions to Andor, and have details in the background for the fans to see.
2282: Treaty of Ectair, the result of a confrontation between the Federation and the Romulans. Again, no direct reference, but I would like to see Romulans in Discovery.
2284: Reliant assigned to Project Genesis. Just namedrop the ship and Captain Terrell, perhaps have a classified cargo run to Regula I.
2285: Events of Wrath of Khan and Search for Spock. Mention Spock's death, describe the aftermath of Excelsior's sabotage, what happened to the transwarp project.
2286: Events of Voyage Home. Aftermath of the Probe incursion. Perhaps recast Jillian Taylor and have a story regarding George, Gracie, and their son Harpo.
2287: Events of Final Frontier. Were the ambassadors returned to Nimbus III? Were there security changes to prevent another Sybok incident to occur?
2289: Ra-ghoratreii elected Federation President. As long as we have a recast Sarek, explore Federation politics at this time. What were the Klingons like just before Praxis exploded? Were they as warlike as ever, or were they already on the road to peace?
2293: Events of Undiscovered Country and the beginning of Generations. There's plenty to cover here in the aftermath of Khitomer. As a fan of the novel Sarek, I think it'd be fun to adapt some of Peter Kirk's career in diplomacy here. Once again, make use of a recast Sarek. How did the Federation react to the "death" of Kirk?

[Nate the Great]

A possible explanation for the redesigned Klingons. (http://www.gamesradar.com/heres-why-the-klingons-look-different-in-star-trek-discovery/)

The weird thing is, the theory is immediately shot down.

A forumgoer asks why the Discovery is using the Enterprise's "mission patch" (http://www.fark.com/comments/9616105/Why-Klingons-look-different-in-Star-Trek-Discovery-They-do-not-like-to-talk-about-it). Another answers "It's because Paramount doesn't want to pay any more money to Michael Okuda to actually know stuff like that."

I know it's outdated slang, but I just gotta say...word.

[Nate the Great]

Another article questioning why there are so many inconsistencies, but at this time the author expresses cautious optimism. (http://www.houstonpress.com/arts/star-trek-discovery-is-already-making-some-puzzling-decisions-9502271)

Another breakdown of the trailer. (https://omni.media/the-star-trek-discovery-debacle)

As for assertions that Vulcans are not racists, well...that isn't quite true. Putting aside Enterprise (on a shelf at the other end of the universe, please!), there are many examples of racist Vulcans. Spock's classmates back in "Yesteryear" come to mind immediately. That idiot Solok comes to mind second.

The problem is putting such sentiments into Sarek's mouth. THAT'S a problem. Sarek is disappointed that Spock's human side prevents him from becoming an ideal Vulcan, but he doesn't think humans are a lesser species, he married at least two of them!

[Nate the Great]

Commentary on the Discovery Delivery Model
(https://www.cultofwhatever.com/2017/06/discovery-is-a-big-risk-for-both-cbs-and-star-trek/)
Salient points:
* Ever since Enterprise went off the air the amount of things a viewer could watch has exploded, so Discovery has to work hard to compete against the other options. No argument here. So why hasn't Paramount figured this out?
* They want Discovery to double the number of subscribers to 2.5 million (Netflix has 100 million). Good luck with that.
* All Access will run ads AND not make a whole season of the show available. Good luck with that.
* Serial storytelling works best when the viewer can binge watch; they can't do that with Discovery. If the pilot doesn't hook a viewer; they're gone.
* If CBS dumped all of Discovery onto the service at once, people would only sign up for All Access for one month. Duh. That's why the weekly model is best used for shows that have self-contained stories. Which Discovery is not.

They're currently working on episode five of fifteen. (http://collider.com/star-trek-discovery-lgbt-characters-alex-kurtzman-bryan-fuller/#cbs)

Again, HOW was this supposed to be ready last January?

A poll about how people intend to watch Discovery: (http://www.strawpoll.me/13143733/r)

55%-Watch it, but on on All Access
27%-Watch it on All Access
12%-No, I don't want to get All Access
6%-No, other

They're missing other options like "I'll wait until it's on DVD" and "I'll wait until it's on Netflix."

[Nate the Great]

Celebrity cameos promised for Discovery. (http://screenrant.com/star-trek-discovery-celebrity-cameos/)

Once again we are promised that Fuller's influence remains and the delays are to ensure a good product. (http://www.denofgeek.com/uk/tv/star-trek-discovery/37600/star-trek-discovery-bryan-fullers-footprints-remain)

I'm not in the mood for snark today, just read them and make your own decisions.

[Flying Gremlin]

That ScreenRant article had me until it called DS9 "Star Trek: Deep Space One".

[Nate the Great]

Discovery Executive Producer says that the show blurs the line between a movie and television. (http://trekmovie.com/2017/06/13/alex-kurtzman-on-how-star-trek-discovery-blurs-line-between-tv-and-movies/)

That's just asinine. If this has to be one or the other, it's television. If anything he should've used things like "science fiction" and "action" or "drama", that would make more sense.

Why fans should look forward to the series. (http://comicbook.com/tv-shows/2017/06/14/star-trek-discovery-alex-kurtzman/)

"It's safe to say that the trailer for Star Trek: Discovery was met with positive reception."

No, it's not safe to say that. At all. Talk about a presumptive statement.

Some YouTube comments from the trailer: (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dxe_ugmIVM&feature=youtu.be)

"a couple of inconsistencies here: 1) every starship had their own emblem before Starfleet decided to adopt the Enterprise's. 2) the Klingons, as explained in an episode of Enterprise, had human features. 3) "ten years before Kirk, Spock, and the Enterprise", depending on the stardate, the Enterprise was already deployed and was under the command of Christopher Pike, and their uniforms don't match. 4) the technology is way too advance from TOS."

"They are putting it on Netflix .... Netflix will air the episodes within 24 hours of their CS All Access release to every country around the world Netflix is available except the US and Canada. I imagine that, with this partnership, Netflix will air the entire season of the show after it is completed for its US and Canada customers as well."

"There's this thing called "continuity", you probably haven't heard of it, it's kind of important when making sequels and prequels."

[NAHTMMM]

"a couple of inconsistencies here: 1) every starship had their own emblem before Starfleet decided to adopt the Enterprise's.
Is this explicitly said, or is it just inferred from seeing other ship's crews with different emblems?

2) the Klingons, as explained in an episode of Enterprise, had human features.
People care so much about Enterprise ;)

4) the technology is way too advance from TOS."
I don't necessarily care about this. Each incarnation of Star Trek is a TV show that reflects what its contemporary society might expect from The Future. If the communicators are smaller and sleeker, I have no problem with that. If the replicators are TNG-era powerful and get used as cheap escapes from one plot after another, there's a problem there.

[Nate the Great]

So you're going to argue that most ships had individual emblems, but that for some reason the Cochrane Delta is an exception in that more than one ship used it?

To be frank, I wonder where this nonsense of the separate mission patches came from anyway. All it meant for the TOS crew is more work and expense making these things that could only be worn once. You'd think the penny pinchers would've shot the very notion down. Remember, the different patches have to be made, then sewn onto new uniforms, then not used ever again. They couldn't be replaced, there would be holes and small tears and frays left by the process that would've shown up on screen.

[Nate the Great]

Discovery premiere confirmed for September 24th. (http://variety.com/2017/tv/news/star-trek-discovery-premiere-date-cbs-1202470137/)

"The series will launch Sunday, Sept. 24 at 8:30 p.m./7:30c on CBS (http://variety.com/t/cbs/), though that time is approximate due to NFL Football and “60 Minutes” also airing that night."

I'm not in the mood for sarcasm today, just note that the words "approximate" and "football" occurred in this post.

[Nate the Great]

Why Discovery was delayed twice.
(http://www.digitalspy.com/tv/star-trek-discovery/news/a831247/star-trek-discovery-delayed-reason/)
Apparently making custom props, costumes, and sets for a scifi show take a lot of time.

Cue "Captain Obvious" joke.

[NAHTMMM]

So you're going to argue that most ships had individual emblems, but that for some reason the Cochrane Delta is an exception in that more than one ship used it?
Keep in mind that I have read Federation, so it seems perfectly natural to me that it's a special symbol for Starfleet . . . but yes, I think there is an entire continuum from "every ship has its own emblem" to "the delta is the fleetwide standard".

TOS is still the frontier era. A lot of little things can be tried, shaken up, and adopted or discarded. Look at the TNG-VOY era: decades later and uniforms are still in a state of continual flux! So there might be one or two default insignia in Kirk's time, but if a ship has a special mission or the Captain requests it, the crew can have their own emblem.

[Nate the Great]

Maybe, maybe, I could be convinced that at the time there was...

1. The 12 emblems for the Constitution class ships.
2. A generic Starfleet emblem for everyone else.

Too bad Discovery blows that out of the water, because they're still using the Enterprise delta.

It's not like Discovery could take place during the Monster Maroon era, where the uniforms looked good, the ships looked good, the emblems really were Cochrane deltas and made of metal...

[Nate the Great]

A closeup of the new uniforms.
(http://scifanatic.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/TrekMovie_DSC_Uniform_Breakdown_21_6_17.png)
Note the 24th century pip-style rank markings. In NO form of the 23rd century seen before were ranks marked by the gold/black pip system! Even the Kelvinverse had TOS-style stripes and dashes on the sleeve cuffs!

So...

Wrong overall uniform design.
Wrong division colors.
Wrong rank markings.
Wrong emblem material and symbol.

First look at the transporter room (http://www.syfy.com/syfywire/first-look-at-new-transporter-room-on-star-trek-discovery)

Huh? Are those supposed to be transporter mechanisms on the back wall?

A comment on that page:

"This should be taking place right around (even a bit after) the events of "The Cage"... I haven't heard it officially announced either way but it seems pretty definite this must be the Kelvin timeline since uniforms and tech don't even try to resemble the look of Captain Pike's Enterprise, theoretically flying around out there (with Spock on board even)"

I emphasize the "don't even try to resemble" part.

[Nate the Great]

Discovery will dispense with Roddenberry's rule that humans have no conflicts or other base flaws. (http://ew.com/tv/2017/06/23/star-trek-discovery-rules/)

I kinda thought that this rule had been thrown away the minute Gene died. It really does seem like some members of the press who are covering Discovery have seen nothing except TOS and the Kelvinverse. Ugh. And if the showrunners feel like they have to explain this, I wonder if they have seen any Trek other than TOS and the Kelvinverse. Ugh again.

Another article extrapolates "more conflict allowed" to mean "more yelling." (https://www.inverse.com/article/33342-star-trek-discovery-arguing-yelling-gene-roddenberry-utopian)

Conflict=/=yelling. And if the showrunners feel that they are equivalent, that's another thing to get worried about.

More details about the first two episodes, and another reiteration that Discovery is stepping away from Roddenberry's no conflict rule.
(http://trekcore.com/blog/2017/06/new-hints-about-star-trek-discoverys-storyline/)
I'm the first to admit that Roddenberry was overly idealistic and that conflict (note: not just yelling and fighting) is needed for drama, but there's a point where "stepping away from Roddenberry" means "this isn't Star Trek anymore."

[Nate the Great]

The first Discovery novel will be released the Monday after the premiere. (http://trekmovie.com/2017/06/28/star-trek-discovery-novel-tie-in-coming-september-comic-to-follow/)

I wish them luck. Thinking about it, I wonder if it wouldn't have been a good idea to make a prequel novel and release it a few weeks before. Don't make it required to understand the show, but a helpful supplement.

The silly thing is, Discovery is supposed to appeal to a wider audience, and let me tell you, the wider audience doesn't know that Trek novels even exist. So why are they bothering with tieins so soon? Wouldn't it have made more sense to channel the novel money into filming vignettes exploring the characters, post it on YouTube, and then put commercials on CBS to direct people toward them?

[Nate the Great]

Main characters could die in Discovery. (http://screenrant.com/star-trek-discovery-game-thrones/)

It's sort of an odd thing to reveal now, isn't it? After all, we don't care about any of the characters at this point, do we? Maybe this post could've been postponed until a month or so after the premiere, right?

[Nate the Great]

Another recap of recently revealed information. (https://www.cnet.com/news/star-trek-discovery-cbs-all-access-trailer-sonequa-martin-green/)

What Discovery can learn from previous shows. (http://www.cbr.com/star-trek-discovery-lessons/)

The lesson from NextGen was apparently "don't rely too heavily on previous continuity."

Rebuttal: Yes, but there's a BIG difference between "don't make watching a previous show required viewing, but don't conflict with it" and "totally ignore previous continuity." For example, we know what the uniforms and ships look like in this time period, and Discovery ain't it.

The lesson from DS9 was apparently "don't be afraid of interpersonal conflict."

Rebuttal: We'll see how they handle this one. Of course, to do interpersonal conflict right you need an ensemble cast of likeable characters. Have we seen evidence of this from Discovery? Just cause we have characters named Sarek and Harry Mudd hanging around doesn't mean that we'll like them or care about their conflicts.

The lesson from VOY was apparently "change up the visual aesthetic."

Rebuttal: Oh, so that's why the transporter was embedded in the back wall like an eyesore; just to shake things up. It's not like we know what ships looked like in this time period, or uniforms...yeah, I've harped on this one before, even in this very post!

The lesson from ENT was apparently "explore other genres."

Rebuttal: Fair enough. I can't really complain about that one. Too bad they outright admit that TNG was doing it first. So what was so revolutionary about ENT again?

Key comment from the article:

"If Discovery should take anything anyway from Enterprise it should be that they need to stick with the familiar. Inventing your own alien conflict and continuity in season one is a terrible idea."

[Nate the Great]

9th episode now filming. (http://ncc-1031.com/news/star-trek-discovery-now-filming-9th-episode/)

Repeat previous queries about last January here.

The link also reiterates the first half/second half explanation. Eight episodes from September 24th to November 5th, the rest starting in January.

Why Discovery is so important (http://ncc-1031.com/opinion/not-a-star-trek-fan-star-trek-discovery-so-important/)

[Nate the Great]

Starfleet officers wearing armor is not a new idea. (https://www.inverse.com/article/33755-star-trek-discovery-armor-starfleet-phasers-canon-tos-burnham)

Apparently someone thought that it was.

"While its unclear if Discovery will reboot or retcon a ton of Trek canon..."

I'll just let that idiotic statement sit where everyone can see it.

[Nate the Great]

More details about Burnham's character arc. (https://moviepilot.com/p/star-trek-discovery-what-is-burnhams-big-decision/4306371)

Okay, great. Now how about those dozens of other characters who have been announced? Or are they just going to be living props? Have we honestly regressed to the TOS era of "if you're not in the trinity you don't matter"?

[Nate the Great]

Kurtzman talks Discovery: (http://trekmovie.com/2017/07/06/alex-kurtzman-star-trek-discovery-will-spark-debate-and-adhere-to-canon/)

Two quotes presented as written, you can all guess what my commentary would be:

"If you are a fan of Trek you are going to see a lot of things which hearken back to the original series and elements of the original series. I am not just talking plot, but the spirit of what that show was. We are going to be revisiting a couple of things on Star Trek: Discovery that I think people are going to find familiar. Without spoiling anything we are adhering to a timeline and sticking to the rules, but also I think finding some new areas and avenues that have only been alluded to, but never fully explored."

"You have to respect canon as it’s being written. You cannot say, “That never happened.” No, no no, you can’t do that, they would kill you. Star Trek fans would kill you. No, you have to respect canon. You have to understand the timelines and what the different timelines were and what the different universes were and how they all worked together. You have to keep very meticulous track of who, what, where, when and why. And we have people in the writer’s room whose sole job is to say, “Nope, can’t do that!”"

[Nate the Great]

A CBS executive talks about Discovery (http://trekmovie.com/2017/07/07/cbs-all-access-president-star-trek-discovery-will-look-and-feel-different/)

Salient points:

* All Access currently has a million subscribers, hopes to hit 4 million by 2020 (insert smirk here)
* CBS has 350 million social followers (how this equates to people willing to pay for Access or people who will be fans of Discovery is beyond me)
* Once again focus is on Martin-Green (to the detriment of the other actors, it seems)
* All Access will have value because older shows won't expire. (you have to get subscribers before the library means you keep them, FYI)

Another article from someone who thinks that Discovery must be its own continuity/another reboot. (https://www.inverse.com/article/33892-star-trek-discovery-reboot-prime-canon-abrams-kurtzman)

[Flying Gremlin]

As an acknowledgement to your loads and loads of characters complaint, they plan on killing a lot of them (http://io9.gizmodo.com/game-of-thrones-inspired-star-trek-discovery-to-kill-m-1796573253).

I'm not sure how to feel on this.

[Nate the Great]

Another recap of known information. (https://www.vox.com/2017/7/9/15845772/star-trek-discovery-what-we-know)

Again they claim Prime Universe status. Again I laugh at the absurdity.

[Flying Gremlin]

The new trailer which dropped at SDCC (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JsYu9jsmlHc) (lasts up until 2:33, then plays the first one; this was the only international copy I could find).

[Nate the Great]

Ugh. No me gusta.

To paraphrase Picard in Insurrection, "Does anyone remember when we were explorers?"

[Nate the Great]

And I'm back. Sorry, computer problems have prevented me from making detailed posts for awhile (my previous post was via iPad, you'll note the lack of links or anything fancy). Time for another news roundup.

An interview with several Trek actors regarding Discovery and Orville. (http://trekmovie.com/2017/08/10/stlv17-star-trek-vets-share-their-thoughts-and-advice-for-star-trek-discovery/)

* Robert Duncan McNeill has already directed an episode of Orville and remarks that the crew over there is careful NOT to be too similar to Star Trek.
* Garrett Wang would rather guest star on Orville.

There will be 24 Klingon houses in Discovery, each with its own agenda, and the new makeup is only for members of one house. (http://trekmovie.com/2017/08/02/stlv17-actors-discuss-different-klingon-houses-in-star-trek-discovery-first-image-of-kol-revealed/)

Um, okay? I'd rather have these new Klingons be more like the Remans, a distinct offshoot in the same culture.

The Nicholas Meyer not-Discovery Star Trek project is a Khan-on-Ceti-Alpha-V miniseries. (https://redshirtsalwaysdie.com/2017/08/05/star-trek-nicholas-meyer-khan-series/)

I'll wait for more details, especially where it conflicts with the To Reign in Hell book that covered this material.

[Nate the Great]

Someone on Twitter altered a screenshot from TAS to include Sybok and Birnbaum. (https://twitter.com/daytonward/status/896165523314008065/photo/1)

"With each new announcement surrounding Star Trek: Discovery, it’s become increasingly clear how intertwined it’s going to be with the original Star Trek." (https://uk.news.yahoo.com/star-trek-discovery-must-deal-legacy-janice-rand-145152218.html)

Insert sarcastic barking laugh here. Does this mean we can expect a reference to Captain Pike? Yeah, I doubt it.

[Nate the Great]

Birnbaum isn't Spock's half sister, she's just his adopted sister.
(http://screenrant.com/star-trek-discovery-sonequa-martin-greens-vulcan-connection-revealed/)
Cue the hecklers in the crowd shouting "why wasn't she namedropped in 'Amok Time' or 'Journey to Babel' or 'The Search for Spock' or 'The Voyage Home' or 'Unification' or..."

She's also the first human to attend the Vulcan Science Academy. Putting aside the novels saying otherwise (and there are some good examples of humans choosing to live among Vulcans among them), I find the notion ridiculous. Either the Vulcan Science Academy teaches things concerning the unique mental powers and spiritualism of Vulcans, in which case they would never let humans in since they couldn't participate fully, or else it's just a college on another planet, in which case humans would be asking to attend way before now.

Why Sarek adopted her. (http://comicbook.com/startrek/2017/08/12/star-trek-discovery-michael-burnhams-parents/)

So the Klingons killed her parents when they were Sarek's guests on Vulcan. The words "bad fanfic plot" keep appearing in my head, I wonder why...

[Nate the Great]

Each season will have its own plot (i.e. the Klingon War won't continue in Season 2). (http://comicbook.com/2017/08/15/star-trek-discovery-season-2-klingon-war/)

Huh? I thought the Klingon clans would be fighting each other and the Discovery was going to be a team ship to prevent a war.

Plus there's the whole thing where "Errand of Mercy" should've had a line like "this war could be even worse than the one ten years ago" if such a conflict existed.

Prime Universe, my foot.

Kurtzman teases spinoffs. (http://boundingintocomics.com/2017/08/15/will-star-trek-discovery-be-the-starting-point-for-future-spin-offs/)

Um, dude? You were hired to make DISCOVERY a good show, and it hasn't even premiered yet. Focus on DISCOVERY, remember that show? Spinoffs aren't your job, unless you want to announce that someone else is taking over your job on DISCOVERY!

[Nate the Great]

Discovery has been rated TV-MA. (http://ncc-1031.com/news/star-trek-discovery-may-get-unfortunate-tv-ma-rating/)

I'm saving my lecture for a few days to see if the production responds by reediting the pilot for re-submission to the MPAA.

[Nate the Great]

Showrunner Aaron Harberts:
(https://redshirtsalwaysdie.com/2017/08/18/star-trek-discovery-lorca/)
“[W]hat’s important to the creative team is the legacy of the show which is passed down from mother to daughter, from father to son, from brother to brother. We want to make sure we’re not creating a show that fans can’t share with their families. You have to honor what the franchise is. I would say we’re not going much beyond hard PG-13.”

Star Trek shouldn't even approach a "hard" PG-13. A "hard" PG-13 shouldn't have been the goal at any point. In situations like this where different groups have different standards you don't aim for "what we get away with", you draw another line to give yourself a buffer zone!

Does anyone else wonder how many All Access subscriptions they just lost with this fiasco?

[Zeke]

You guys know I try to avoid politics at the forums... but man, with them both going on concurrently, it is impossible to look at the ST:<a></a>D production process and not wonder if it's being run by the Trump administration. Both of them are making every unforced error they possibly can.

I'm still gonna hope this is good, of course. It always could be, despite everything. But I'm preparing for the worst. Every franchise that goes on long enough will eventually lose its unity, even for the most dedicated fan. There's a personal breaking point where the "real" franchise ends and what comes afterwards is more like fanfic with a license. I'm not sure if I hit that point with the reboot movies, but this show may make it official.

[Nate the Great]

What has me worried is that the studio hasn't come out with a statement yet along the lines of "we're going to reedit and resubmit the pilot to reduce the rating". I wanted to give them a day to do damage control. They failed me. Not even a "please stand by while we consider our options", just a "we're surprised, we weren't aiming for that."

Quoth a fan comment: (https://www.geek.com/television/but-why-does-star-trek-need-to-be-r-rated-1679256/)

I quote now from CBS and Paramount's own guidelines for Star Trek fan films:

7. The fan production must be family friendly and suitable for public presentation. Videos must not include profanity, nudity, obscenity, pornography, depictions of drugs, alcohol, tobacco, or any harmful or illegal activity, or any material that is offensive, fraudulent, defamatory, libelous, disparaging, sexually explicit, threatening, hateful, or any other inappropriate content...

It's good to know that CBS is so hypocritical. I had looked forward to watching Discovery with my daughter but unless CBS starts listening to the fans and stops trying to make Star Trek into Game of Thrones, I will most definitely pass.

Shame on you CBS for ruining such a great franchise!

[Flying Gremlin]

You guys know I try to avoid politics at the forums... but man, with them both going on concurrently, it is impossible to look at the ST:<a></a>D production process and not wonder if it's being run by the Trump administration. Both of them are making every unforced error they possibly can.

I'm still gonna hope this is good, of course. It always could be, despite everything. But I'm preparing for the worst. Every franchise that goes on long enough will eventually lose its unity, even for the most dedicated fan. There's a personal breaking point where the "real" franchise ends and what comes afterwards is more like fanfic with a license. I'm not sure if I hit that point with the reboot movies, but this show may make it official.

Optimism, Zeke! (https://youtu.be/xKVG3WNEWJg?t=8s)

[Nate the Great]

A roundup of upcoming Discovery merchandise (https://trekmovie.com/2017/08/21/comprehensive-guide-to-all-the-star-trek-discovery-licensees-and-merchandise/)

The one that confuses me is that the first novel will be ready in time for the premiere, but you'll have to wait until next year for the second. It's not like CBS would want to strike while the iron's hot and take every dollar that they can from the viewers coming off of the premiere...oh, wait...

Someone weakly attempts to defend the TV-MA rating
(http://uproxx.com/tv/star-trek-discovery-tv-ma/)
"If you take a look at shows carrying TV-MA rating (http://www.imdb.com/search/title?certificates=us:tv_ma), it’s a broad category. Sure, Game of Thrones is on there, but so’s The Crown, and it’s not like John Lithgow’s parading around nude in that one. TV-MA is, essentially, TV shows that perhaps adults don’t want kids to see for any number of reasons, and that’s always been Star Trek to some degree. Not because it showed Vulcans Gone Wild: Pon-Farr Out or Worf proving tribbles are best eaten alive, but because of the franchise’s efforts to be socially relevant."

Huh? I mean it, huh? Since when was Star Trek unsuitable for children? Yes, a few scenes or episodes aren't suitable, but using the word "always" is really asking for guys like me to refute it as a blatant lie.

"Over time, though, people have gotten touchier about the politics of their entertainment, real or perceived. It doesn’t matter what the show is, no matter how innocuous, there are people on the internet offended by it (http://uproxx.com/tv/big-bang-theory-nerd-hate/), even if they have to contort themselves into a mental pretzel to make that happen (http://internet.gawker.com/internet-racists-are-obsessed-with-nickelodeons-show-ab-1716108536). So, networks turn to a simple ratings system: Don’t blame us, we told you it was TV-MA."

That's called "cowardice." I don't doubt that this has happened, but Star Trek should be held to a higher standard, that was kind of the entire point of the show. Besides, last time I checked the studio wasn't assigning the ratings, the MPAA was.

And they repeat the Aaron Harberts quote I already posted. It almost seems to be him saying "I don't think it's worth a TV-MA, I think it should be TV-14, so just pretend that it is."

[Nate the Great]

Jason Isaacs dares the doubters to watch the show. (http://comicbook.com/startrek/2017/08/21/star-trek-discovery-jason-isaacs-controversy/)

He doesn't care to cater to fans because we're going to watch anyway. He thinks we're going to pay money just to nitpick?

[Nate the Great]

A comment chain over at redshirtsalwaysdie.com (https://redshirtsalwaysdie.com/2017/05/19/star-trek-discovery-timeline-continuity-issues/)

(ignore the speculation about the date, this is from three months ago when I suspect the 2255 date wasn't set in stone yet)

Some pertinent quotes:

"No this is not even remotely "the TOS era put through a modern day perspective." This is the TOS era put into the meat grinder."

"I don't know why these show runners can't get their facts straight - at least with Star Trek there's tons and tons of reference material and information online. Easy to fact-check. If they're just doing a reboot, they need to just own up to it. I really, really, reaaaaaallly hate it when those in charge of these projects treat the viewing public, let alone actual fans of the franchise, like we're idiots."

"To those who don't get it and are caught asking the insipid question, "Why is continuity important?", I will explain it to you in the simplest terms I can. Imagine that you like a certain period of history -- a lot. Say, the 18th century. Lets say you like it so much that you find historical re-enactments of events from that period interesting. Perhaps you're even a re-enactor yourself. You pay close attention to historical detail when making or buying parts of your outfit/uniform. Now, consider this. Because Star Trek is a legendarium that covers more than 300 years of "history" (okay, fictional history), and because it covers those years in so much detail -- the ships, the uniforms, the technology -- avid Star Trek fans are like historians in their attention to detail, and cosplayers are like re-enactors, likewise. You do not simply decide, "Well, we decided to change it, because reasons." Its like walking into Mordor."

[Nate the Great]

We finally get confirmation that Fuller was fired because he ignored deadlines and budgets in an effort to make a good show. (https://www.bingobyte.com/new-details-come-to-light-on-bryan-fullers-exit-from-star-trek-discovery/)

[Nate the Great]

Nine Reasons To Be Worried About Discovery (http://whatculture.com/tv/star-trek-discovery-9-reasons-to-be-worried)

[Nate the Great]

Discovery is the solution to today's problems (http://http://www.looper.com/84006/star-trek-discovery-solution-todays-problems/)

Once again I had to delete a lot of snark. I'll just point at the rating again and question how the title of the article can be the truth when children shouldn't even be watching it.

[Flying Gremlin]

Discovery is the solution to today's problems (http://http://www.looper.com/84006/star-trek-discovery-solution-todays-problems/)


Your link is broken, because you have an extra "http://" in there.

Corrected. (http://www.looper.com/84006/star-trek-discovery-solution-todays-problems/)

Not that I am commenting any which way before the premiere of the show. I plan on watching then determining whether it is good or bad, rather than read the vitriol that is the Internet Hate Machine. (Yeah, I realize that usually only describes the 4chan Anonymous members, but if the shoe fits it usually was denounced as awful a year before its release.)

[Nate the Great]

The classic red/blue/yellow uniform colors may be introduced gradually. (https://www.inverse.com/article/36125-star-trek-discovery-uniforms-classic-tos-colors-the-cage)

The uniforms should be here NOW. Christopher Pike and the Enterprise are buzzing around in them, after all.

Or are you going to tell me that there's going to be a line of dialogue saying that only the Consitution-class ships of the line have those uniforms. Because I doubt it.

The studio states that plans for Season Two have not been made yet. (http://ncc-1031.com/news/no-official-word-on-season-2-of-star-trek-discovery-yet/)

Ah, they still think they're going to get a second season. How adorable.

Hey, a guy can dream, can't he?

[Nate the Great]

Eight essential episodes to watch before Discovery (http://www.player.one/star-trek-discovery-history-vi-undiscovered-country-119855)

I had so much snark written out that I had to delete. Ugh.

[NAHTMMM]

The classic red/blue/yellow uniform colors may be introduced gradually. (https://www.inverse.com/article/36125-star-trek-discovery-uniforms-classic-tos-colors-the-cage)

The uniforms should be here NOW. Christopher Pike and the Enterprise are buzzing around in them, after all.
If they tell some good Trek stories then I'm willing to let them let the costume designers have some fun.

[Flying Gremlin]

If they tell some good Trek stories then I'm willing to let them let the costume designers have some fun.

Damn, there's no Like button.

[Nate the Great]

You're telling me that uniform colors are protected by the "established facts can be ignored for the sake of a good story" clause?

[Nate the Great]

The answer to "why should I watch Discovery" is apparently...
(http://www.anglenews.com/star-trek-discovery-what-is-it-about-when-is-it-on-and-is-it-worth-watching/)
...it's the first new televised Star Trek in over a decade and the cast is diverse. That's it. Pretty weak arguments if you ask me.

A second site adds... (http://metro.co.uk/2017/09/10/star-trek-discovery-what-is-it-about-when-is-it-on-and-is-it-worth-watching-6910649/)

...there are impressive visuals, plenty of action, and interplanetary drama. I repeat my previous comment.

[Flying Gremlin]

You're telling me that uniform colors are protected by the "established facts can be ignored for the sake of a good story" clause?

Here's the thing, dude: you have been bagging on Discovery practically since the announcement. Actually, I think you did the same day it was announced... well, within 24 hours of posting the thread, at least.

If story is good, then they could have the whole crew run around in Drive jumpsuits for all I care. Or naked. That is actually why I could forgive a lot of Enterprise, once they got some of the establishing stuff out of the way: it is not necessarily the Trek we know and love, and it looks a little different than the way we've been imagining all this time, but the story (more or less) was decent and I was entertained. The fact that they are wearing the wrong colors is something that we have had to endure since they began the movies - the Hell was up with the TMP pyjama uniforms, anyway? - and different series will mean it.

And it is not to say things like the character vs. character business in a post-human conflict society, or the Klingon's looks, or even a uniform design is not a little off-putting. Long-time Trek fans can look at this in the way that this isn't the way they exactly pictured it and pick it apart and show people that it is the worst thing ever... or they can look on Discovery as a new direction in a universe that already hasn't been consistent with itself, accept that there are always going to be changes as time goes on, and just enjoy the ride as long as it lasts.





I am sorry, I got a little rant-y there. It gets to me that the majority of comments here on Discovery been negative, when no one has any idea what the finished product looks like. Star Trek, to me, has always been about optimism for the future, and if I even get a glimmer of that out of Discovery with a good story, I will take it.

[evay]

Star Trek, to me, has always been about optimism for the future, and if I even get a glimmer of that out of Discovery with a good story, I will take it.

This, exactly this. It's Star Trek. I'm going to watch it. Are people seriously bitching about the uniforms? It's fucking Star Trek with a non-white non-male lead, opening with an Asian female captain (I know she's not the captain of the Discovery), with a character in an open, stable, non-straight relationship.

It's Star Trek. Tell good stories, be optimistic, show IDIC, and I'm there. The rest is noise. Gatekeepers and universe purists can suck warp plasma.

[Nate the Great]

It's clear that I need a time out from this topic. The premiere is in less than two weeks, I'll see how I feel after the reviews from people not on CBS's payroll turn out.

I'll see you elsewhere in the forum. Hopefully the TOS 50th and TNG 30th threads will be more fun than this.

[Zeke]

I agree that you can use a break, but I also agree with a lot of your concerns (as does Wowbagger, who I talk to often on FB). Optimism is important, no question. One CAN hope. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPGQPXFszHA) But there are just so many bad signs.

There's a song in Fiddler on the Roof with this bit:

God would like us to be joyful even when our hearts lie panting on the floor...
How much more can we be joyful when there's really something to be joyful for?

The contrapositive is just as true. The worse things look, the harder optimism gets.

On a different note, can you guys believe it's less than two weeks now? After all the delays and chaos, I had gotten used to thinking of ST<span>:</span>D as a distant-future thing. I had the same feeling when Batman v Superman finally really happened.

[Wowbagger]

It's clear that I need a time out from this topic. The premiere is in less than two weeks, I'll see how I feel after the reviews from people not on CBS's payroll turn out.

You'll have to wait until release day, then, because CBS just imposed a review embargo! Yayyyy! http://io9.gizmodo.com/cbs-wont-allow-any-reviews-of-star-trek-discovery-befo-1809073782

I want this so desperately to be good, and I agree with everything F_G said about good stories being able to make up for many sins against continuity... but everything I have seen about Discovery (except the decent theme song) says to me that it's not going to be good. The embargo is a damning exclamation point on all that.

I haven't felt this way since early September 2001, back before ENTERPRISE convinced me it would actually be Star Trek and not some horrible knockoff.

(Of course, that one ended well, and I'm pinning my cautious, perhaps foolish hopes on that.)

[Zeke]

See, that's what I mean about unforced errors. The review embargo doesn't prove anything -- but it was the last bad sign they had time to give us before launch, and boy, they jumped at the chance!

[Flying Gremlin]

The premiere is in less than two weeks, I'll see how I feel after the reviews from people not on CBS's payroll turn out.

I promise I'm not on the CBS payroll. Not that I wouldn't mind that, mind you... but I can also be critical of them. Ask me my opinions about cancelling Two Broke Girls, or making a Big Bang Theory spinoff.

The worse things look, the harder optimism gets.

I concede this. I still don't worry about it, though, until after premiere.

You'll have to wait until release day, then, because CBS just imposed a review embargo! Yayyyy! http://io9.gizmodo.com/cbs-wont-allow-any-reviews-of-star-trek-discovery-befo-1809073782

Seriously, CBS, stop trying our patience as a collective and just let someone, anyone, tell us it's good, bad, or in between.

[Wowbagger]

Seriously, CBS, stop trying our patience as a collective and just let someone, anyone, tell us it's good, bad, or in between.

I would be so, so fine with in-between right now. Trek always improves, after all! (Well, except TOS.)

((And I know Zeke thinks early VOY is better than late VOY. (((Incorrectly.)))))

[NAHTMMM]

You're telling me that uniform colors are protected by the "established facts can be ignored for the sake of a good story" clause?
I've had to put up with the existence of a single-nacelle Federation starship, I can put up with a continuity deviation that actually looks decent.

As long as they don't introduce Kirk's crew or other crews we've already seen and show them in the wrong uniforms, I don't mind. Enterprise already had blue uniforms, we're going to see a crew in between that fashion and TOS's. I'm okay with that. If these were some other color, it would be weirder.

I agree with you and others that there is a lot of room for skepticism and pessimism about this series, but I'm going to give it a chance where it deserves a chance and not risk throwing a baby out with the bathwater.

Still not signing up for All Access (I might come home and find that KJ has, but that's her decision), but I'm also not going to dig a grave before the thing even launches.

[Nate the Great]

I know I said I'd keep out until the premiere, but I'm about to say something positive about Enterprise. Since apparently pigs are flying, whales are dropping from the sky, and I've become my own grandpa, I think I deserve a freebie.

Enterprise took place in a completely different era as prior series. The uniforms were completely unknown. And Enterprise used the same division colors as TOS!

Discovery can't even use the correct division colors for undershirts, keeping them as a minimal splash of color against a more muted uniform. No, bright colors in any amount are unthinkable for a modern show, replace that nonsense with metallic colors instead!

[NAHTMMM]

I mean, I'd much prefer the bright colors of TOS too, but I'll take what I can get.

And there are some continuity lines they shouldn't cross. Like transporters. They were far inferior to TNG-era tech in TOS, even if they did magically solve a few plots. Transporters don't reliably hit moving targets, they aren't good at beaming through solid rock, and I'm pretty sure they don't do intership beaming or site-to-site -- there has to be a transporter pad at one end or the other.

[Nate the Great]

Too many snarky comments...must resist...

Four more days...

I must remember to make a Majora's Mask joke tomorrow. ;)

[Nate the Great]

Yeah, the Majora's Mask joke wouldn't work because the "end of the world" is happening at night instead of dawn.

However, because I'm easily amused, I'm going to inflict a half hour loop of the Clock Town theme on you anyway (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1h_sSI0nHQc)...

[Zeke]

Tonight's the night!

Please be good.

Pleeeeease.

[Nate the Great]

No spoilers, just reactions.

A Trek BBS forum thread discusses the pilot.
(https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/star-trek-discovery-1x01-the-vulcan-hello.290069/page-24)
I realise it has been a while, but I can't think of any previous Trek show that had a 'knock it out of the park' first episode. Most are lacklustre at best, and suffer many of the same problems The Vulcan Hello does - expositional clunky dialogue, characters not quite set yet, variable acting depending on the scene.

The post goes on to describe the failures of the earlier pilots. My response: maybe this is okay when the public can watch subsequent episodes on TV for free, but if you want us to pay for this stuff-expend more effort getting the first episode right!

I think that brings up the overall problem with the episode. There seems like there was a lot of confusion behind the scenes about what they wanted to say and what they wanted to show. I think the "too many cooks" plays into that.

I've covered this before.

I think they made a big mistake setting the show in the prime universe because anyone familiar with the prime universe can clearly see that this does not fit in the prime universe.

The technology is way too advanced. And obviously the Klingons have been totally changed in appearance. When GR changed the appearance of the Klingons in TMP, he asked the audience to accept that they always looked like that, but didn't have the makeup in the 1960s. I always thought that was a fair explanation.

The TMP-24th century Klingons looked great. There's a difference between change by necessity and change for the sake of change.

They should have known better.

For me, this just didn't feel like Star Trek. I felt no optimism here. No sense that this was humanity at its finest. It was way too dark.

I can't see how this show would fit with Pike's Enterprise.

The amazing thing is that with very few tweaks, this show could have been set 100 years after Picard and most of these problems would be avoided.

Told you so.

And again (https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/rec.arts.tv/Tp9YuwI7g5M/AN6DvSLdBgAJ)

A few plot points and character arcs don't quite track, and some aspects of the show haven't gelled yet. The Klingons, who are dangerous enemies in this world, are very elaborately garbed and their scenes are often ponderous and too slow (the actors give their level best, but they labor under imposing facial prosthetics that make their expressions hard to read). Another complaint: The new Federation uniforms are terrible. Why give these capable officers panels of disco-friendly gold cloth on their hips?

When it comes to covering alien characters in layers of prosthetics, either stay away from the mouth enough so they can talk clearly, or dub over them later. I thought this was mastered decades ago! And someone else thinks the uniforms are awful, yippee!

And again (http://www.digitalspy.com/tv/star-trek-discovery/review/a838930/star-trek-discovery-episode-1-2-review-vulcan-hello-battle-binary-stars/)

There are significant pacing issues, interrupting the action sequences with flashbacks and Klingon councils that are either unnecessary or linger too much on clunky world-building and dialogue.

You'd think after over seven hundred episodes these guys would have such silly skills as "pacing" and "editing" mastered.

Time for a positive review! (http://www.digitalspy.com/tv/star-trek-discovery/news/a838684/star-trek-discovery-reviews-reaction-sonequa-martin-green-michael-burnham-spock/)

On first contact with the new series, it's clear CBS is planning to play it safe in terms of not contradicting all of the Star Trek history that came before it...

Ha ha ha ha!

Splitting the difference between commercial slickness and graphic novel solemnity, this Trek offers PG-13 violence, audience-pandering exposition dumps, cliffhanger endings, Game of Thrones-style pomp, and a touch of Lost (http://www.digitalspy.com/tv/lost/)'s mystery box plotting, but also poker-faced musings on quantum science, moral relativism, logic vs. instinct, race vs. culture, and the military's tendency to corrupt science in service of war...

These are good things?

The Straight Dope forum weighs in (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=20497485)

I enjoyed it but I think CBS did themselves a disservice by not airing Episodes one and two together as a combined two hour Pilot as I don't think Episode one alone sold the series or told the full story well enough. I was also a little sour because they delayed the streaming premiere to 8:48 pm to match the Football overrun on the network. That was dumb and annoying.

That's a good point: since when did Star Trek not air the full two hour pilot at once? You need two hours to introduce everyone and the setting, right?

I would have preferred the new Star Trek to just be "A ship full of interesting characters explores space".

I've remarked before that it looks like this show is just about a trinity, and the other guys are just living props.

Yes, the first episode seemed to focus heavily on some conflict on the bridge and had more action than you'd expect to see on an inaugural episode from this franchise, but it is WAY too soon for me to write this show off right out of the gate.

If you want the audience to spend money on this, then I would disagree with the "it gets better later" argument being valid. Discovery may well be better later, too bad every failure of the pilot lost you paying customers!

Another forum thread (http://64.91.255.7/forum/showthread.php?t=1437075&page=25)

One thing I'll be curious to see going forward is whether the series actually makes use of the time period. I'm not a fan at all of it taking place 10 years before Kirk, but they should at least utilize it; just replace Sarek with Tuvok and the klingons with mystery species X and you could set this 50 years after Voyager.

Where have I heard this before?

I'm quite surprised by the amount of continuity they've kept, right down to the Vulcan script in the testing pits. Someone in the art department knows their stuff.

It's a shame the continuity bug never reached the ship designers, or the uniform designers, or the set builders, or...

[Flying Gremlin]

I liked both episodes so far.

[Nate the Great]

Source (http://screenrant.com/star-trek-discovery-technology-too-advanced-cloaking-holodeck/2/)

Playing fast and loose with continuity would allow Discovery to cherry-pick what works while excising what doesn’t from the different versions of the franchise. While Fuller did say this series is in the Prime timeline, this fact has been played down since, especially after he stepped down as showrunner. Given Star Trek’s long and often contradictory history, splitting the difference with an alternate/mixed reality could be its best bet. It would allow the writers to make the references and connections that fans demand while also allowing new, uninitiated viewers a fresh start point.

Prime universe status has been downplayed? That's new to me. I'll cover the "fresh start point" later. The article goes on to say that Discovery could be retconning prior series like recent comic book universe events. Can someone explain to me the supposedly subtle difference between "new universe" and "we're retconning most of the Prime Universe"?

Don't expect Season Two in 2018 (http://comicbook.com/startrek/2017/09/26/star-trek-discover-season-2-release-date/)

Apparently the studio wants to match the effects of Game of Thrones to justify All Access.

[Flying Gremlin]

So what did you think, Nate?

[Nate the Great]

First, I forgot to cover the "this isn't really a fresh start" thing. The article points out that while technically someone totally ignorant of Trek could jump in, for most practical purposes the creators are assuming that you've at least seen Enterprise and the Kelvinverse.

Second, I'm not going to watch Discovery in the near future. Retcons aside, why would I want to watch anything that emulates Enterprise or the Kelvinverse?

If CBS wants me to watch Discovery, they need to put out a whole critically-acclaimed season and release it on Netflix or broadcast television where I can watch it. And admit that this is a new universe.

[Flying Gremlin]

Teasers for Season 2 were released (https://trekmovie.com/2018/07/20/sdcc18-star-trek-discovery-season-2-first-look-teaser-and-images-released/)

[Nate the Great]

So now uniforms that look vaguely like TOS uniforms are okay? Is Discovery supposed to be more of a grungy, workhorse assignment justifying different uniforms, like the early days of DS9?


And even if that was the case, I'd expect the Discovery uniforms to obey the TOS division colors. No, I won't let the division colors thing go!