Check out my website! - if you dare...

[Nic Corelli]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]I give you all quite a challenge... try to decode the nightmarishly complicated Croatian language, and check out the pretty Star Trek pictures I`ve put on the site, :)

http://zvjezdane-staze1.tripod.com

and tell me what you think, of course

(sorry about the pop-ups...)[/color:post_uid0]

[Nic Corelli]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]P.S.

If you want to vote in "The Best of Star Trek" poll, click the "Anketa", on the left menu... :)[/color:post_uid0]

[catalina_marina]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]I think you forgot to mention the poll is in Croatian too. Not that I had much trouble reading it, though. :)[/color:post_uid0]

[taya17]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]You speak Croatian, Cat? I thought you were Dutch.
So is this Serbo-Croatian, or some other kind of Croatian, or is there only one Croatian language? :S
Confusion.[/color:post_uid0]

[catalina_marina]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]No, I don't speak Croatian, but have you seen the poll? There are only a few Croatian words, and a lot of names of episodes and characters, be it with a Croatian ending. And it's not hard to figure out Najbolja means favourite. Or so I think, anyway.[/color:post_uid0]

[mudshark]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]Didn't have any problem with pop-ups, but pages were loading very slowly, so I haven't explored the whole site. Slavic languages in general are not my strong suit, but there were enough recognizable words that I could usually get at least some sense of what a given sentence was about. (I'm just glad it was written as a Croat would write it, rather than a Serb -- then I would have been completely lost.)

Layout looks nice and clean.[/color:post_uid0]

[Nic Corelli]

[color=#000000:post_uid0][quote:post_uid0="taya17"]So is this Serbo-Croatian, or some other kind of Croatian, or is there only one Croatian language? :S
Confusion.[/quote:post_uid0]
Actually, Serbian and Croatian are two languages, very similar ones... however, from 1945 to 1991 they were, due to political reasons, officially referred to as one language, Serbo-Croatian. In 1991, they went back to being two languages.

One part of the site has a lot of English, though... the "Voyager Likovi" subsite (Voyager Characters). Most of the characters have their quotes there, in original English of course, :)[/color:post_uid0]

[taya17]

[quote:post_uid0="Nic Corelli"][color=#000000:post_uid0]Actually, Serbian and Croatian are two languages, very similar ones... however, from 1945 to 1991 they were, due to political reasons, officially referred to as one language, Serbo-Croatian. In 1991, they went back to being two languages.[/color:post_uid0][/quote:post_uid0]
[color=#000000:post_uid0]::smushes head against wall:: Oh, that helps [i:post_uid0]so[/i:post_uid0] much.

I'm guessing that it's the same thing with Mandarin and its dialects: many languages, all similar, but Chinese is the 'official' language of China, sort of...[/color:post_uid0]

[Nic Corelli]

[quote:post_uid0="taya17"][color=#000000:post_uid0][quote:post_uid0="Nic Corelli"]Actually, Serbian and Croatian are two languages, very similar ones... however, from 1945 to 1991 they were, due to political reasons, officially referred to as one language, Serbo-Croatian. In 1991, they went back to being two languages.[/quote:post_uid0]
::smushes head against wall:: Oh, that helps [i:post_uid0]so[/i:post_uid0] much.

I'm guessing that it's the same thing with Mandarin and its dialects: many languages, all similar, but Chinese is the 'official' language of China, sort of...[/color:post_uid0][/quote:post_uid0]
[color=#000000:post_uid0]Something like that, I guess...

By the way, do you know that Mira Furlan, B5 actress from your avatar, is Croatian? :)[/color:post_uid0]

[taya17]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]Nic, did you just ask me if I knew that Mira Furlan was...

...

::wonders why the six-foot-high "Mira Furlan fangirl" sign above her head isn't lighting up like it's supposed to:: Work, damn you! ::THWACK THWACK::

In short, yes. :D

Actually, I've always thought that she was from Yugoslavia. Somebody care to explain the difference to me? European politics is horribly complicated.

Speaking of languages, the only Croatian I know is "disi duboku" which I've been told means "breathe deeply". Hmpf. ::looks into language classes for semester break::[/color:post_uid0]

[Sa'ar Chasm]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]Yugoslavia is an artificial country cobbled together after WWI from the Slavic-speaking areas of the Austro-Hungarian empire. The name means "south Slavs," more or less. After 70-odd years of being stuck in the same country, four out of the six constituent republics (Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia-Unpronounceable and Macedonia) decided they were sick of being dominated by Serbia and declared independence. What followed was a decade of bloody conflicts in which the term "ethnic cleansing" was coined.

Such is an outsider's perspective. Nic can probably provide a more detailed (and accurate) synopsis.[/color:post_uid0]

[taya17]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]So that's what the whole Bosnian/Serbian conflict was about? You'll have to enlighten me, I'm particularly dense when it comes to world affairs...

I should really spend less time online and more time reading the papers. Or at least papers from ten years ago when I didn't read them.[/color:post_uid0]

[mudshark]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]Yugoslavia = "Kingdom of the Slavs" (it [i:post_uid0]was[/i:post_uid0] briefly a kingdom following its establishment at the end of WWI, under King Zog, IIRC.)

It was assemblage of South Slavic groups with a lot of historical animosity towards each other. You may recall that a battle fought in 1364(?) was cited in reports on the fighting in Kosovo as a longtime sore point between the Albanians and other ethnic groups in the region. Basically, the different Slavic groups have not been getting along with each other since they moved into the area around year 400.

Communism actually served to keep things relatively quiet for most of the period between WWII and the late 1980s. With the collapse of the USSR and the fall of the Iron Curtain, the lid came off that particular pressure cooker.

Disclaimer: this may be an oversimplification, but I've got to go to work now.[/color:post_uid0]

[catalina_marina]

[color=#000000:post_uid0][quote:post_uid0]Bosnia-Unpronounceable[/quote:post_uid0]
Bosnia-Hercegovina. Too bad you're not American, or I could have bugged you about names like Massachutts, Arkansas and Illinois. :D[/color:post_uid0]

[NAHTMMM]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]What's so hard about [i:post_uid0]Mas'-sa-choo'-sets[/i:post_uid0] and [i:post_uid0]Il'-li-noise'[/i:post_uid0]? :p[/color:post_uid0]

[catalina_marina]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]Well for one, Massachu[i:post_uid0]se[/i:post_uid0]tts is so hard I can't even [i:post_uid0]spell[/i:post_uid0] it. :p
And about[quote:post_uid0][i:post_uid0]Il'-li-noise'[/i:post_uid0][/quote:post_uid0]loose the s. :D[/color:post_uid0]

[Celeste]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]Ey now. As a Massachusettsian I am offended by your unableness to spell my state! :P[/color:post_uid0]

[catalina_marina]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]Hey, cut me some slack! I'm Dutch, we spell 'US' as 'VS' :D[/color:post_uid0]

[NAHTMMM]

[color=#000000:post_uid0][quote:post_uid0="catalina_marina"]Well for one, Massachu[i:post_uid0]se[/i:post_uid0]tts is so hard I can't even [i:post_uid0]spell[/i:post_uid0] it. :p[/quote:post_uid0]
Massachusetts is spelled phonetically, except for the double t bit. It's just long is all. ;)

[quote:post_uid0]And about[quote:post_uid0][i:post_uid0]Il'-li-noise'[/i:post_uid0][/quote:post_uid0]loose the s. :D[/quote:post_uid0]

No. :p :D[/color:post_uid0]

[Sa'ar Chasm]

[color=#000000:post_uid0][quote:post_uid0]Too bad you're not American, or I could have bugged you about names like Massachutts, Arkansas and Illinois.[/quote:post_uid0]

There's always Saskatchewan.

Back to the Balkan thing: the southernmost province of Yugoslavia, Macedonia, managed to break free without any bloodshed, the only one to do so. However, Greece objects to a bunch of Johnny-come lately Slavs (I'm speaking from a perceived Greek perspective here) using a name they've considered theirs for about 2500 years, so Macedonia has to conduct its international affairs under the cumbersome appellation "Former Yugoslavian Republic Of Macedonia" or FYROM for short. Strange but true.[/color:post_uid0]

[Nan]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]And the rest of the Yugoslavian confederation just voted to disband.

Two famous Croations are Mira Furlan and Goran Visnjic (Luka from ER).

[quote:post_uid0]There's always Saskatchewan.[/quote:post_uid0]

Or Quw'utsun. :D Spelled and pronounced "Cowichan" now. Settlers with stiff tongues.

Gotta love those BC names for things. Ditidaht, Tsawwassen, Ucluelet, Clayoquot, Tsimshian, Tlingit, Sto:lo... :D

Not as aggravating as Polish, though. Gdansk. Przemysl. Swietokrzyski. Kleszczele? What the hell? That's 4 consonents in a row!

Freakin' ancestors. Lordy. ;)[/color:post_uid0]

[catalina_marina]

[color=#000000:post_uid0][quote:post_uid0]Or Quw'utsun.[/quote:post_uid0]
:O I gotta learn not to ask about these things someday.

We have a few of those too, though. For foreigners, Eindhoven and Nijmegen, anything with an ei/ij, really. Hell, even Amsterdam seems to be difficult.
And what about Hoogezand-Sappemeer?

I spent years pronouncing Enschede all wrong.[/color:post_uid0]

[mudshark]

[quote:post_uid0="Nan"][color=#000000:post_uid0]Not as aggravating as Polish, though. Gdansk. Przemysl. Swietokrzyski. Kleszczele? What the hell? That's 4 consonents in a row![/color:post_uid0][/quote:post_uid0]
[color=#000000:post_uid0]There's always Lodz (imagine the "L" has a diagonal slash thru the upright stem, here -- I don't have that one on my keyboard) which is pronounced "woodge", or the name Szulc, which sounds the same as Schultz. Polish is fun. :)

[quote:post_uid0]Back to the Balkan thing: the southernmost province of Yugoslavia, Macedonia, managed to break free without any bloodshed, the only one to do so.
[/quote:post_uid0]Didn't Slovenia also manage to step out with a minimum of fuss?

More historical trivia: the area occupied by Yugoslavia managed to be on the dividing line many times, over the years.
• Western Roman Empire (Roman Catholic, Roman alphabet)/Eastern (Byzantine) Empire (Orthodox, Cyrillic alphabet) [4th-c. -> ]
• Holy Roman Empire/Arab->Turkish Empires [8th-c. -> ]
• Austro-Hungarian Empire/Ottoman Empire [15th-c. -> ]
• Axis/Allied (WWII)
etc.[/color:post_uid0]

[taya17]

[color=#000000:post_uid0][quote:post_uid0="Guest"]it [i:post_uid0]was[/i:post_uid0] briefly a kingdom following its establishment at the end of WWI, under King Zog, IIRC.[/quote:post_uid0]

King Zog? Is that some kind of a joke?

[quote:post_uid0]Not as aggravating as Polish, though. Gdansk. Przemysl. Swietokrzyski. Kleszczele? What the hell? That's 4 consonents in a row!
[/quote:post_uid0]

And you've forgotten Stracyznski. That's 5 consonants in a row! Ooh I can spell Stracyznski. Woot! Go me!

We've got pretty weird names here in Singapore as well. Changi, which is pronounced "chag-nee". Although Gaelic wins hands down for the [i:post_uid0]weirdest[/i:post_uid0] transliterations ever.[/color:post_uid0]

[Sa'ar Chasm]

[color=#000000:post_uid0][quote:post_uid0]Although Gaelic wins hands down for the weirdest transliterations ever.[/quote:post_uid0]

Aoidhgheann: Ian.

Welsh has some strange letter combinations as well:
Llwyd = "kloo-id," more or less. W is a vowel sometimes. A valley is a coomb (cwm).

I really wanna know who transliterated the Celtic languages into English. Probably some illiterate Sassenach git.[/color:post_uid0]

[mudshark]

[quote:post_uid0="taya17"][color=#000000:post_uid0][quote:post_uid0="Guest"]it [i:post_uid0]was[/i:post_uid0] briefly a kingdom following its establishment at the end of WWI, under King Zog, IIRC.[/quote:post_uid0]

King Zog? Is that some kind of a joke?[/color:post_uid0][/quote:post_uid0]
[color=#000000:post_uid0]Oops. Peter of Serbia was the king of Yugoslavia in the beginning. Ahmed Bey Zogu ruled in Albania as King Zog I, but that wasn't until a few years later (1928-39).[/color:post_uid0]

[Nan]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]Zog = "no," in weird-totem-head-alien-ese. :D

They say Krakow is named after a Prince by the name of Krak who slew a dragon that had been bothering the locals.

Dunno about Warzawa.

[quote:post_uid0]...(imagine the "L" has a diagonal slash thru the upright stem, here -- I don't have that one on my keyboard)...[/quote:post_uid0]

Likewise, "Vojtyla" (Pope's last name) is pronounced "voy-TIH-wa." Sorta.[/color:post_uid0]

[taya17]

[quote:post_uid0="Nan"][color=#000000:post_uid0]Zog = "no," in weird-totem-head-alien-ese. :D[/color:post_uid0][/quote:post_uid0]
[color=#000000:post_uid0]I dunno, the head kinda looked like Optimus Prime to me. Bwaahahahaha!

Sorry, just like to go around saying "Bwaahahahaha" a lot.[/color:post_uid0]

[Nic Corelli]

[color=#000000:post_uid0][quote:post_uid0="Sa'ar Chasm"]Yugoslavia is an artificial country cobbled together after WWI from the Slavic-speaking areas of the Austro-Hungarian empire. Â The name means "south Slavs," more or less. Â After 70-odd years of being stuck in the same country, four out of the six constituent republics (Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia-Unpronounceable and Macedonia) decided they were sick of being dominated by Serbia and declared independence. Â What followed was a decade of bloody conflicts in which the term "ethnic cleansing" was coined.

Such is an outsider's perspective. Â Nic can probably provide a more detailed (and accurate) synopsis.[/quote:post_uid0]
Actually, this is 100% accurate! Go, Sa`ar! :)

And Mudshark`s description of the events is also completely correct. I`m impressed! I`ve been asked on the net few years ago if Croatia was in Iowa or near Singapore... :D[/color:post_uid0]

[Nic Corelli]

[color=#000000:post_uid0][quote:post_uid0="Sa'ar Chasm"][quote:post_uid0]Too bad you're not American, or I could have bugged you about names like Massachutts, Arkansas and Illinois.[/quote:post_uid0]

There's always Saskatchewan.

Back to the Balkan thing: the southernmost province of Yugoslavia, Macedonia, managed to break free without any bloodshed, the only one to do so. Â However, Greece objects to a bunch of Johnny-come lately Slavs (I'm speaking from a perceived Greek perspective here) using a name they've considered theirs for about 2500 years, so Macedonia has to conduct its international affairs under the cumbersome appellation "Former Yugoslavian Republic Of Macedonia" or FYROM for short. Â Strange but true.[/quote:post_uid0]
Yes, Macedonia broke free out of Yugoslavia in 1991 without any bloodshed, but in 1999 or 2001, I don`t remember the exact year, a civil war erupted between the Macedonians and the Albanian ethnic minority. It lasted for about a year, then it ended.

As for the "Former Yugoslavian Republic of Macedonia" thing, the Greeks are right - Macedonia was one of the ancient Greek kingdoms, and later Alexander The Great`s empire. And when the Slavic tribes that settled in that region after the fall of the Roman Empire took the name Macedonians, well... they`ve stolen it. They even have the symbol of Alexander the Great on their flag now, so I understand why the Greeks are angry.

Still, the "Former Yugoslavian Republic of Macedonia" is [i:post_uid0]really[/i:post_uid0] complicated...[/color:post_uid0]

[Nic Corelli]

[color=#000000:post_uid0][quote:post_uid0="Guest"]Didn't Slovenia also manage to step out with a minimum of fuss?

More historical trivia: the area occupied by Yugoslavia managed to be on the dividing line many times, over the years.
• Western Roman Empire (Roman Catholic, Roman alphabet)/Eastern (Byzantine) Empire (Orthodox, Cyrillic alphabet) [4th-c. -> ]
• Holy Roman Empire/Arab->Turkish Empires [8th-c. -> ]
• Austro-Hungarian Empire/Ottoman Empire [15th-c. -> ]
• Axis/Allied (WWII)
etc.[/quote:post_uid0]
Indeed, Slovenia got out quickly... Serbian war against Slovenia lasted for about 5 days... probably the shortest war ever. There were no casualties, perhaps only a few tiny cars squashed by armoured tanks...

(or was it the England - Zanzibar that was the shortest war ever?)

Oh, about Welsh... I know some! (Ahem) Llansantffraid. Cwmbran Town. Aberystwyth. Conah`s Quay... okay, this last one is easy, :) I`d love to go to Wales one day...

And Polish... that is one wacky language, :D Sczeczin... I think that`s the name of one city... But the Hungarian is also cool... Zalaegerszeg. Szekeszfehervar...

And there`s always Croatian... the city block where I live is called Trnsko, :D Translated to English, it would mean "Thornville". Kind of cool...

And those of you who visited the website probably noticed that the Croatian term for Star Trek is Zvjezdane staze... :D[/color:post_uid0]

[Nan]

[quote:post_uid0="taya17"][color=#000000:post_uid0]I dunno, the head kinda looked like Optimus Prime to me.[/color:post_uid0][/quote:post_uid0]
[color=#000000:post_uid0]You know, you're right. It DID kinda look like Optimus. :D

More like Optimus Primal (stupid name).

My uncle worked on that show.[/color:post_uid0]

[Sa'ar Chasm]

[color=#000000:post_uid0][quote:post_uid0]Actually, this is 100% accurate! Go, Sa`ar![/quote:post_uid0]

Woo! Go me! *victory dance* People call me a geopolitical marvel.

More modestly, I like to think I know a little bit about every country. Not a lot, but just enough to pick it out on a map, plus a few salient features from its history and customs.

[quote:post_uid0](or was it the England - Zanzibar that was the shortest war ever?)[/quote:post_uid0]

Twenty three minutes.

[quote:post_uid0]More like Optimus Primal (stupid name).[/quote:post_uid0]

Not quite as dumb as Terrorsaur or Waspinator (although Waspy was one of my favourite characters).

Silverbolt is a cool name.[/color:post_uid0]

[Nan]

[color=#000000:post_uid0][quote:post_uid0="Sa'ar Chasm"]Silverbolt is a cool name.[/quote:post_uid0]
Yeah, but how much of a ham is [i:post_uid0]he[/i:post_uid0]? Good heavens. ;)

Megatron's enhanced dragon form was really cool. And Gigabyte from Reboot.

[quote:post_uid0]Woo! Go me! *victory dance* People call me a geopolitical marvel.[/quote:post_uid0]

OK, oh marvel, where's Val Morin? :D

*runs away*[/color:post_uid0]

[Sa'ar Chasm]

[color=#000000:post_uid0][quote:post_uid0]OK, oh marvel, where's Val Morin? [/quote:post_uid0]

Quebec.

Tell me the population and then I'll decide whether it's worth getting more specific.[/color:post_uid0]

[taya17]

[quote:post_uid0="Nic Corelli"][color=#000000:post_uid0]I`ve been asked on the net few years ago if Croatia was in Iowa or near Singapore... :D[/color:post_uid0][/quote:post_uid0]
[color=#000000:post_uid0]That would be nice. Really, it would be.

And speaking of dumb Transformer names, nothing beats MegaTRON! When I first got reaccquainted with the series a few months back, I was all like, "BWAAHAHAHAHA!"

My friend is so obsessed with the series she has wet dreams about them. Which is about the bizarrest thing I have ever heard of in my life.[/color:post_uid0]

[Nic Corelli]

[quote:post_uid0="taya17"][color=#000000:post_uid0][quote:post_uid0="Nic Corelli"]I`ve been asked on the net few years ago if Croatia was in Iowa or near Singapore... :D[/quote:post_uid0]
That would be nice. Really, it would be.[/color:post_uid0][/quote:post_uid0]
[color=#000000:post_uid0]Oh, how come? :)[/color:post_uid0]

[taya17]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]Because that'd put Singapore smack in East Europe, which would be cool in many ways. Anywhere by here in the armpit of the world![/color:post_uid0]

[Nan]

[quote:post_uid0="Sa'ar Chasm"][color=#000000:post_uid0]Quebec.

Tell me the population and then I'll decide whether it's worth getting more specific.[/color:post_uid0][/quote:post_uid0]
[color=#000000:post_uid0]Tell you the population, eh? After I told you what province it was in? :D[/color:post_uid0]