This is a test - This is only a test

[Zeke]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]This is a little HTML visibility test. Â An upcoming guest fiver has a special character in it, and I want to make sure everybody can see it. Â So, does this --

<font size=+2>&radic;2</font>

-- look like the square root of 2 to everybody?[/color:post_uid0]

[Sa'ar Chasm]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]Had this been a real emergency, your monitor would have exploded and your hard drive would be melting.

Yes, I can see that. It's gi-normous, but I can see it.

It's also missing the top line, but I don't know if that's intended.[/color:post_uid0]

[Zeke]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]The top line wouldn't work in HTML. Strictly speaking, a square root sign is only the jagged line in front of the number -- the line over top of what's inside is actually a kind of bracket, called a "vinculum." ([i:post_uid0]Voyager[/i:post_uid0] fans will recognize that term.) Since HTML uses proportional spacing, I wouldn't be able to position underline characters exactly over top of the 2, and there's no overline font, so it's this or graphics.[/color:post_uid0]

[PointyHairedJedi]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]I can see it fine too.

May not be a good indication though - when I'm tired I tend to see lots of things that aren't actually there. I'm almost positive it's not a full blown hallucination though - I haven't been near the Dried Frog Pills for months now.[/color:post_uid0]

[catalina_marina]

[color=#000000:post_uid0][quote:post_uid0](Voyager fans will recognize that term.)[/quote:post_uid0]
Not all of them.

But yes, it's there.[/color:post_uid0]

[mudshark]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]For me, it's just "&radic;2", but my net hookup is seriously retarded, and soon to be replaced. More on that later.[/color:post_uid0]

[Michiel]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]You can overline the two with css. Just use this code:

√<span style="text-decoration: overline;">2</span>

You can put the style in a stylesheet too, of course. And you know, the font-tag is deprecated.[/color:post_uid0]

[Katy Jane]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]I can see it too! :D I feel privileged :D ;)[/color:post_uid0]

[Zeke]

[quote:post_uid0="Michiel"][color=#000000:post_uid0]You can put the style in a stylesheet too, of course. And you know, the font-tag is deprecated.[/color:post_uid0][/quote:post_uid0]
[color=#000000:post_uid0]Are you criticizing my archaic HTML? [i:post_uid0]Are you?[/i:post_uid0] You wanna try running a site with this many pages? Huh? Do ya? Punk?

Seriously, I know I'm way out of date. I just don't have the time to revolutionize my site coding -- sooner or later I'll come out from behind the times, but not in the near future. Version 3.1, the "creeping redesign," isn't even done yet. A code overhaul would be Version 3.2.

But you make a persuasive case. I had [i:post_uid0]no[/i:post_uid0] idea font tricks were that easy in CSS.[/color:post_uid0]

[Zeke]

[color=#000000:post_uid0][quote:post_uid0="catalina_marina"]Not all of them.[/quote:post_uid0]
It's from "Infinite Regress." Â To quote from Jim's writeup:

[quote:post_uid0]It's that Borg thingie we saw earlier. Seven confirms. "It's a Borg vinculum." Chakotay repeats the word, confused. Seven explains. "The processing device at the core of every Borg vessel. It interconnects the minds of all the drones. It purges individual thoughts and disseminates information relevant to the Collective." (Vinculum, by the way, is Latin for fetters, as in manacles, chains, etc. An apt description.)[/quote:post_uid0]

A vinculum bracket is another kind of metaphorical chain, holding numbers together, which makes the term just as appropriate. Â Vinculum brackets are also found in long division and repeating decimals, e.g. 3.5<span style="text-decoration: overline;">47</span> = 3.547474747....[/color:post_uid0]

[Sa'ar Chasm]

[color=#000000:post_uid0][quote:post_uid0]Vinculum, by the way, is Latin for fetters, as in manacles, chains, etc. An apt description.[/quote:post_uid0]

Which begs the question...where did the Borg learn Latin? (Locutus they probably plucked from Picard's memory). I suppose Seven could be translating.

Just thinking out loud, not really nitpicking (this time).[/color:post_uid0]

[Nic Corelli]

[quote:post_uid0="Sa'ar Chasm"][color=#000000:post_uid0]Which begs the question...where did the Borg learn Latin? Â [/color:post_uid0][/quote:post_uid0]
[color=#000000:post_uid0]Well, probably by assimilating their first humans (like Mr and Mrs Hansen). And when they realized how infinitely cool it was, they just had to rename all of their stuff into Latin, :D[/color:post_uid0]

[Michiel]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]Are you sure the Hansons were the first humans ever assimilated (not counting time-travel encounters)? Wasn't it Picard? The borg weren't even known until he found them. I think the Hansons went to search for them after that.[/color:post_uid0]

[catalina_marina]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]I think so too, although I counted back with the stardates given and decided there is no continuity there. :eyeroll:[/color:post_uid0]

[Sa'ar Chasm]

[color=#000000:post_uid0][quote:post_uid0]And when they realized how infinitely cool it was, they just had to rename all of their stuff into Latin,[/quote:post_uid0]

This is true. In what other language can you say "Utinam barbari spatium proprium tuum invadant" and really mean it?

Anyone who translates that gets a piece of my birthday cake. Nan, Zeke and 17 are disqualified.[/color:post_uid0]

[Michiel]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]M* b* i* y* p* s*

Wow, that took long. *ughgoogleugh*

Draco dormiens numquam titillandus. :p[/color:post_uid0]

[catalina_marina]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]None, that's Latin.

How would barbarians invade your territories?

I get the feeling only a dictionary is no good when translating Latin.

May barbarians invade your personal space.

I only had the grammar wrong. :D

EDIT: Michiel, you're mean to get it before me. ;)
Also, never tickel a sleeping dragon.[/color:post_uid0]

[Nic Corelli]

[quote:post_uid0="Sa'ar Chasm"][color=#000000:post_uid0]"Utinam barbari spatium proprium tuum invadant"[/color:post_uid0][/quote:post_uid0]
[color=#000000:post_uid0]My Latin is a bit rusty. "Bloody barbarians, I will spit on you properly, and then invade you!"

Or is Cat right? :D[/color:post_uid0]

[catalina_marina]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]I'm always right. Especially when I give up tranlating manually and switch to google.[/color:post_uid0]

[Sa'ar Chasm]

[color=#000000:post_uid0][quote:post_uid0]I'm always right. Especially when I give up tranlating manually and switch to google.[/quote:post_uid0]

Google is a wonderful thing. So is www.insultmonger.com/swearing/latin, or something similar.[/color:post_uid0]

[Michiel]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]A bit back on topic:

Zeke, does this forum filter out any html-tags? (Yes, I know. I just realised my square root code got accepted by the forum instead of replaced by character entities.)

If so, this could mess up the forum pretty badly if someone uses it and forgets to add a closing tag.[/color:post_uid0]

[NAHTMMM]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]I can see the doohickey in front (on IE 6), but no bar over the top (just for the record).[/color:post_uid0]

[catalina_marina]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]At school the root sign doesn't have a horizontal line at the top, but here, at home, it does. There, the vinculum doesn't quite connect.[/color:post_uid0]

[Michiel]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]Internet Explorer, huh? :)

Lets try again:

<span style="font-size: 8pt;">√</span><span style="margin-left: -1px; border-top: solid 1px #000; font-size: 7pt;">12345</span>

<span style="font-size: 16pt;">√</span><span style="margin-left: -1px; border-top: solid 2px #000; font-size: 13pt; font-weight: bold;">12345</span>[/color:post_uid0]

[catalina_marina]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]Oh, and that line is too high.[/color:post_uid0]

[Michiel]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]Well, I suppose this will never be cross-browser compatible. Unless you forget about the vinculum or use an image.[/color:post_uid0]

[taya17]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]Most computer programs, save for those specialized to create mathematcial symbols, don't use the vinculum anyhow.

Looks better to me. Gives the numbers a bit 'o fresh air.[/color:post_uid0]

[Derek]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]Eventually MathML will come standard in all browsers and then you can make complex mathematical notations in a browser easily.

For example, sqrt(12345) would be expressed:
<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>[b:post_uid0]HTML[/b:post_uid0] </td></tr><tr><td id="CODE">[color=#333333:post_uid0]<math xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML">
<mrow>
<msqrt>
<mrow>
<mn>12345</mn>
</mrow>
</msqrt>
</mrow>
</math>[/color:post_uid0]</td></tr></table>

But currently most browsers (and webpages) aren't designed for it, so for now we have to resort to CSS tricks. (By the way, I think overline looked the best of all the examples so far.)[/color:post_uid0]

[Zeke]

[quote:post_uid0="Michiel"][color=#000000:post_uid0]Zeke, does this forum filter out any html-tags?[/color:post_uid0][/quote:post_uid0]
[color=#000000:post_uid0]It's possible, but if so, I don't know about them. I've always made a point of allowing HTML in posts because of how annoyed I get when I post at forums that don't allow it.[/color:post_uid0]

[taya17]

[quote:post_uid0="Zeke"][color=#000000:post_uid0]I've always made a point of allowing HTML in posts because of how annoyed I get when I post at forums that don't allow it.[/color:post_uid0][/quote:post_uid0]
[color=#000000:post_uid0]Hear, hear![/color:post_uid0]

[Derek]

[color=#000000:post_uid0][quote:post_uid0="Zeke"]I've always made a point of allowing HTML in posts because of how annoyed I get when I post at forums that don't allow it.[/quote:post_uid0]
I think they're just trying to protect you from people who would do here ("]this[/url] or worse.

(Click [url=") if you click the first link.)

Bah. Then again, the fact that Javascript doesn't seem to work the same under all browsers might not make it such a bad thing.[/color:post_uid0]

[Michiel]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]<style type="text/css">#quote { border: dotted 2px; background: #f22; }</style> Or from people who decide to change the appearence of the quote-boxes. ;)

[quote:post_uid0]Bwaha[/quote:post_uid0]

But, seriously. There's a tag that makes the browser ignore every html-tag that's in it except for the correct closing tag. If that closing tag never comes, the reply-button is also gone. Some jerk loved doing this on another forum that allowed all html.

That's what iB Code is for. :)[/color:post_uid0]

[NAHTMMM]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]Somehow, although I trust Derek, I find myself strangely unable to click on that first link... :suspicious: ;)[/color:post_uid0]

[Katy Jane]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]:lol: :lol: Don't worry, the second link fixes it :lol:[/color:post_uid0]

[catalina_marina]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]Not here it doesn't. It just gets me another strangeness. But reloading the page does.

You know, Michiel, I think I like the original quote-boxes better. ;)

EDIT: <style type="text/css">#quote { border: 1px solid Black; background: #FFFFFF; }</style>That's better. :)[/color:post_uid0]

[Derek]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]If you use Mozilla (or Netscape, or Firebird, or something like that), it works as intended.

If you use IE, the change isn't as noticeable, but the second link (for some reason) will return you to the main forum after fixing the problem.

I have no idea what happens when you try it with Opera or some other browser like that.[/color:post_uid0]

[catalina_marina]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]Correction, after [i:post_uid0]not[/i:post_uid0] fixing the problem. As I see it, the then-lime block at the left bottom corner of your quote turns into some colour "#e9edf2" instead of white, like the rest of the post.[/color:post_uid0]

[Derek]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]Whoops. That's because I'm not using the 5MV theme for the message boards, I'm using the other theme. It works fine for me. :)[/color:post_uid0]

[catalina_marina]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]Shame on you! ;)[/color:post_uid0]

[Zeke]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]Point taken: these HTML tricks you guys have demonstrated are pretty unsettling. However, I'm still going to allow HTML unless we actually start having trouble with people abusing it. This forum hasn't had much trolling in the past, and hopefully that'll continue.[/color:post_uid0]

[NAHTMMM]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]Can you just block the more dangerous and less useful HTML code? Like, say, Javascript?[/color:post_uid0]

[catalina_marina]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]I don't know all that much about HTML, but I say those style things shouldn't be allowed.[/color:post_uid0]

[taya17]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]It's less a matter of the coding than it is a matter of trust-- if Zeke trusts the members of this board to behave and not mis-use the HTML and scripting capabilities, then I think we should still keep it. I agree that allowing HTML code here is useful, and it's a part (small one, but still there nonetheless) of the reason I like this place so much.

HTML is nifty. Just my 2 cred's worth. :)[/color:post_uid0]

[Celeste]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]we've had HTML this whole time, and no one's abused it yet. I don't think it's a problem..[/color:post_uid0]

[Derek]

[color=#000000:post_uid0][quote:post_uid0="Celeste"]we've had HTML this whole time, and no one's abused it yet. I don't think it's a problem..[/quote:post_uid0]
<div id="dd3" style="padding: 1em; float: left; background-color: aqua;" onclick="document.getElementById('dd1').style.display='bloc k';document.getElementById('dd2').style.display='n one';document.getElementById('dd3').style.backgrou ndColor='aqua';document.getElementById('dd4').styl e.backgroundColor='blue';">Response 1</div><div id="dd4" style="padding: 1em; background-color: blue; float: left;" onclick="document.getElementById('dd2').style.display='bloc k';document.getElementById('dd1').style.display='n one';document.getElementById('dd4').style.backgrou ndColor='aqua';document.getElementById('dd3').styl e.backgroundColor='blue';">Response 2</div><div style="padding: 1em"> </div><div id="dd1" style="padding: 3em; background-color: aqua;">That doesn't mean I haven't been tempted.</div><div id="dd2" style="padding: 3em; display: none; background-color: aqua;">Is that a challenge?</div>

Okay, I promise that's my last gratuitous javascript trick. (and yes, I know it's ugly, but it's functional)

Actually, I'm glad we have HTML. As much as I haven't used it on these boards, there've been times on other boards where I've really wanted to use definition lists (<dl>). They're really useful since it will auto-indent descriptions about any term, but I've never seen BB code that will allow them. Oh well.[/color:post_uid0]

[catalina_marina]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]Why do I get the feeling everyone thinks I don't like HTML? :O

I love HTML, as far as I use it. Which is not much, but hey, I'm still learning alright? Yes, from this forum. :p[/color:post_uid0]

[Katy Jane]

[color=#000000:post_uid0][quote:post_uid0]Insert Derek's post here, i would but the code got messed up. [/quote:post_uid0]
Ok, that's just plain amusing :lol: There have been times when i wanted to do that. :D[/color:post_uid0]

[Zeke]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]For me, the most useful part of having HTML available is that I can paste the newspost directly into a thread without having to change the tag format. I don't even have to change the link addresses -- I use relative links, so "../nextgen/hideandq.html" will point to the right file whether I'm in /news or /forums.[/color:post_uid0]