I am deeply concerned about the domestic havoc Bush and his cronies have already wreaked. I'm not going to rant; if you want to discuss it privately we can. But this has left me deeply unhappy and disappointed in my fellow Americans.

This just in: Ottawa offers to annex the Northeast, the Pacific Coast and selected bits of the Great Lakes.

Aww,don't toy with me like that Sa'ar.

Well, I do have to admit that it was really hard for me to choose between Bush and Kerry. I don't think either one of them is evil, and horrible to have as president, but I can say that I don't belive in most of the things that Bush belives, and I don't believe that Kerry would of made anything better in Iraq, and may only of made it worse. Of course I don't think Bush will make anything better in iraq, either.

Anyway.. I will keep hope that the mistakes Bush made in his first 4 years were only because he was new to the job, and that these next 4 years will get this country back to its somewhat normalty.

WARNING: Rant ahead.

Max Herre (German hip hop artist) re the election:

"It's like choosing between cancer and a coronary."

My problem with Bush (and his cronies) is easily summed up: Iraq. Yeah, Saddam was a dictator. Big deal. There's lots of them. But last time I checked, invasion without provocation isn't exactly the premier means of international diplomacy.

What really sickened me was all the spin. It's about the WMDs! It's about Osama! It's about the oil^^^people of Iraq! These people looked into the camera with a straight face and lied. Time after time. Against all facts, being unreasonable all along the way, and only after the fact admitting that *maybe* they were a tiny bit wrong - but really, somebody else messed this up, right?

And what do they have to show for lying, leading the USA into another war, laying waste to another country, violating basic human rights as matter of protocol and all the while eroding civil rights?

They get reelected.

---

It's like seeing some beloved member of your family suddenly go crazy. It hurts even more because *I* can remember a time when we all looked up to the USA, when they could do no wrong. Now the cloak is torn, and what we see is a dark, twisted, Bizarro-world USA that's slowly choking on it's own self-righteousness, celebrating a past they are actively destroying.

And *that* is what really gets under my skin.

Gatac

I voted for Bush! it's a little late I know!

You didn't give a reason :shock: . Most of the pro-Kerry people here (or "absurdly-gullible-eejits" as I like to call them did.) I just think Bush has been villainised for fairly invalid reasons. Oh, and Saddam was a dictator of horrific cruelty. 'Nuff said. No more argument needed. END. OF. STORY. What really gets me is the way some of the people who go on about the war have no feeling for those fighting it on the ground. Some of these people have given their lives for this war, yet all people can think about are fucking conspiracy theories when there are people DEAD. there are people in that country who are EVIL. and yes, it exists. if it's about Osama, he is EVIL - not just "morally impaired" or what ever other PC crap you want to spout.
sorry. end of rant.

I have a few words for pro-Bush people, but Zeke would probably ban me from the board if I spoke them.

I'd like to say, though, I'm with the "Anybody But Bush" group, and couldn't care less for Kerry.

There are horrific dictators all over the world, doing terrible things to their people all the time, and it's wrong....but they don't have oil. I'm not asking for you to believe me, go look it up for yourself, research. Iraq has some of the richest deposits of oil around, and about half of Bush's administration is or has been involved in various energy corporations.

Also, people don't understand that people against the war, are for the troops. We DON'T want them to die. What I'm against is the reason they're fighting. I have sympathy for them because they have to do what they're told, so it all goes back to the administration.

Ah, so that's how the familes on my street got into the country. That explains everything

It takes a lot for me to ban a user. If it didn't, I'd have banned Jedi years ago. :twisted:

If you're talking about swearing, sure, I'd edit it out. But I won't punish you for the sentiment, especially in a thread whose whole purpose is talking politics. (And you can always get away with swearing by doing it 5MV-style. Spluck this, fruck that....)

And me, don't forget me! *jumps up and down waving arms around* I'm sure I've caused more trouble than everyone else :lol:

Geeze, what do I have to do get noticed around here anyway :? :wink:

Okay, I'm done with talking about politics. I can't keep myself from getting angry so I won't speak of it again, that's my new mandate. And if you try to talk/discuss/start an argument with me about it,I'll ignore you. It's easier on the both of us.

I didn't give a reason because I was late for work as it was! ;)

I have my reasons mainly because I'm a Republican and have been since ermmmm... well a very long time. I remember being in the second grade and wanting Bush to win. In the sixth grade I wanted Bush to win, but Clinton did. (I wasn't happy, so Vedra I can understand your feelings. I probably didn't want Clinton in office as much as you don't want Bush.) I wasn't old enough to vote yet though. I remember wanting the Republican party to beat out Clinton again, but he won 4 more years. And then in 2000 I REALLY didn't want Al Gore to win and I liked George Bush and his values so I voted for him. I'm proud of that decision and I'm proud of it again. I can't change anyone's views that aren't already set, nor can you change mine. At least not overnight. ;) I have very conservative values and morals and John Kerry doesn't represent that to me. Anyways, those are just a few of the reasons. The others, I'll keep to myself because I don't want to insult anyone who really is anti Bush and pro-Kerry. :)

Right now I can't see Bush going after Iraq because of oil. I think it's more likely he was inclined to do it because he was used to Saddam being The Evil Guy from when Bush Sr. was in office. "Saddam has nukes, does he? So he's up to his old tricks again. Well, this has gone too far already and we aren't going to let it go on any longer..." etc.

1. Why when things arn't going perfuctly in this country does everyone blame one single person? Think about it people he's the President NOT GOD! There are much greater factors at work here than just the president. On September 11 when I thought ahead to what was going to happen to our country, I envisioned us a whole lot worse off than we are now.

2. So, maybe Bush's real reason's for going to Iraq wern't the greatest, But it is still something that needed to be done. I've spent the last ten years wondering why we didn't stick it out and do it the first time! My Cousin was in Iraq (he's home now) and every were they went people ran in to the streets and thanked them for what they have done!

Pick you conspiracy theory (no guarantee on the level of rationality):
1) King George the First figured he'd need a scapegoat to blame ills on later (every President needs a nemesis: Reagan had Khomeini, Kennedy had Krushchev, everyone had Castro)
2) Encouraging the Shi'ites and Kurds to rise up, promising them help and then leaving them high and dry seemed like a good idea
3) Since most of Bush's cronies had helped put Saddam in power in the first place, it seemed like a flip-flop.
4) The Iranians might get uppity again, and we needed a client state next door to threaten them with.

The only argument for going into Iraq that would have carried any weight with me would be an admission of responsibility and a promise to try and clean up previous messes.

"We know Saddam has weapons. We kept the receipts."

Also, don't let the media fool you - there is actually good news from Iraq (and Afghanistan)

Good News From Iraq (Latest - Part 13)

Good News From Afghanistan (Latest - Part 5)

You can see the latest sections at those links and on the sidebar of the page they link to, the older articles are lower down on the right sidebar of links. (quite a bit farther down)

Remember, what you see on the news is not the whole story.

I went Bush, because he's anti-abortion. 'Tis easy--if extraordinarily annoying--to be a single issue voter. Let's (alright, I'll) just hope he'll have (has) the chance--and the willpower, and the Senate votes--to retake the Court.

Whew! That's a lot of clauses for two sentences.

Xeroc, you read Taranto, don't you?

The city in Southern Italy?

No, really, you mean James Taranto? The editor of OpinionJournal from the Wall Street Journal?

Yes, I read him occasionally, why do you ask?

You voted for him just because he's anti-abortion? That's the stupidest fu-...*reboot* So,anyone up for a rousing game of Parcheesi?