You know, if you guys are trying to advertise TP, you really aren't doing a very good job, are you? :)

So, from what you've seen so far, does it meet Nintendo's promise of being as innovative, addictive, and spectacular as OOT?

My chief complaints about this game are in regard to a single item (which works fine, but lacks instruction) and the speed with which one climbs ladders.

That's... really it.

The control really is a drastic improvement. The storyline is epic. The world is huge. The sidequests are awesome as hell and perfectly Zelda-esque.

The game kicks ass. Period.

Worth spending $300 for a new system + game, even.

But is the kickbuttage as epic as OOT? :)

How can it be Zelda-esque if it IS Zelda? Just wondering. I assume you mean that there is a Zelda flavor unique to itself, I guess I just like being a git sometimes.

Man, I can't wait to get this... though the compulsory fishing has ratcheted my enthusiasm down a notch. I know the fishing minigame in Ocarina is a fan favourite, but personally, I found it completely uninteresting.

On the timeline: When the games make it clear that they're to be taken as continuity sequels (like Wind Waker with respect to Ocarina), I take their word for it; I also put them in the same world when they occur in pairs that obviously go together (LoZ/AoL, OoT/MM, Oracles). But except in those cases, I think of the games as totally different universes where the basic Zelda story is retold each time. Trying to reconcile them requires backbreaking feats of rationalization -- which I can do, I'm a Trekkie, but I don't think it's worth it here. It's like trying to fit two Final Fantasy games together. Nintendo just likes to tell the story of the first time Link saves Zelda from Ganon, so they do it over and over.

This has been going on right from the start, incidentally. Ever read the story of Zelda II? It's the same Link but not the same Zelda, and we never hear from the one he saved last time. The very first time Nintendo had a chance to make continuity confusing, they did it.

All that said, if you do want a timeline, IJD's is sensible. I'd try to put the original game earlier for tradition's sake, but I get the reasoning.

Nate: The dungeon in Wind Waker with a million floors is optional. (And for the record, it goes down, not up.) There is a somewhat tedious compulsory part, a fetch quest before the final palace, but it's not too bad; further, the sea travel is much more interesting than people tend to say. By the way, you're not really surprised TP is being discussed at PA, are you?

IJD: I disagree about two things. One, Link in the Oracle games has met Zelda. She's mentioned and even comes to visit in whichever one you play second (then needs you to save her, natch). Two, Adama does rock sometimes, but not when you said it. From the date of your post, the episode you'd just seen is one where he's an utter douchebag.

Huh. I always thought it was pretty damn clear that OoT is a fleshing-out of the "Imprisoning War" described in the introduction to LttP. Of course, the one thing that always confused me was the fact that all seven maidens in LttP are apparently Hylian, whereas there were five or six different races represented by the Sages in OoT. And even if we allow that even some of those races could interbreed with Hylians, I don't think the maidens could have had the power they had remaining if their Goron/Zora/Kokiri/Sheikah/Gerudo blood was so thin that they looked completely Hylian. Anyone have any clues, apart from the obvious "it's not a coherent timeline" one?

I suppose now is an appropriate time to bring up the "fact" that Hylian is the elf-like race and Hyrulean is the general term for any inhabitant of Hyrule. Perhaps the earlier games used the wrong term because they didn't have it pinned down yet.

I suppose that one could argue that Kokiri, Gerudo, and Shiekah are just races of Hylians. The Kokiri may be ageless because of some mystical property of the forest. Wonder if that means that Saria will age now.

So that leaves Hylian, Zora, Goron, and Deku, just like in MM.

An optional dungeon? So what's the incentive?

The race issue seems to be minor retcon fodder, easily established as a temporal burp, as Dave Anez would put it.

What is it always? A Heart Piece. (Actually, I think one of those required fetch quest items is in there too, but only about a third of the way down.)

Also, each floor is just one room, albeit with like a million monsters in it.

Heh. Those guys are an easy kill though. Especially with the down-thrust sword attack.

Down-thrust attack? Is that anything like a jump attack?

Heart Pieces are generally only useless once you become an expert at the game.

Jump up, stab down. Doesn't sound like much, but it's one of the most powerful moves in any Zelda game. AoL is very hard before you get Down Thrust; after that the difficulty is more normal, though it picks up again at the final palace. The move is also found in Minish Cap, though it's less useful there.

I agree that Heart Pieces are mostly for completists. Unlike Energy Tanks in Metroid or Sub-Tanks in Mega Man, you don't need to hunt for them to increase your capacity, since every boss coughs up a full Heart Container. However, it must be said... anyone can be an expert at Wind Waker. Parry Attacks make it easy to take down even the strongest opponents. (There's also a new bottle item, Link's grandmother's soup, which costs nothing, holds two doses, refills your health fully, and doubles your attack power till you get hit. At least you can only carry one of them....)

1) Soup? Pfft. No matter how enticing Nintendo tries to make potion-like fluids, I'll always prefer filling my bottles with fairies.

2) Concerning Zelda continuity, I think the most sensible approach to take, really (in spite of my fairly practical timeline) is to consider the title thoroughly. We aren't talking about a history. We are talking about a legend. We're talking about stories passed on over a multitude of generations, probably orally, where details get changed many times over in the retelling. The continuity of the games is pretty easy to reconcile when you think of it in these terms. There were originally a small handful of tales, which were elaborated on in different ways, adding and subtracting characters, almost all including Link, Zelda, and Ganon(dorf). Some versions have Link leaving Hyrule afterward, some do not. Some speak of subsequent Links or previous Links, others do not rely on them. Exactly the sort of detail fudging that generally occurs through any great oral storyretelling.

3) .... uh .... Go Adama!

If you're proposing that the Zelda stories are simply that, then it reminds me of the Lord of Rings. Within the mythos Frodo and Bilbo wrote all of it, right? Their perspective is insightful, but no one can possibly keep track of all of those characters and events correctly and simultaneously. Ergo, minor errors.

I prefer Blue Potions.