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Some Questions to Spur Discussion
Before we get into today's topic, I think I'll enjoy some echos from this cavernous stretch of cyberspace that I seem to be enjoying.
Nate: Hello..... Echo1: .........Hello...... Echo2: .....................Hello...... All: Hello! Just some random questions to encourage posting: 1. What do you think really happened to the Xindi in the hundred years before Kirk? Are they still there and we just never saw one, or were they assimilated by the Borg when no one was looking, or what? 2. Do you prefer Mark One Assimilation (beam you away and insert implants manually and probably surgically) or Mark Two Assimilation (inject you with nanoprobes and manufacture implants using metal from hammerspace)? As a plot device, I mean, not as the way you'd prefer to be assimilated. 3. Can you think of a reason why Andorians' antennae never moved in TOS? Was it bred out of the genepool, or is it a trick that only certain Andorians can do, akin to wiggling ears? 4. Regardless of the way the dictionary says it, do you prefer "few-tile" or "few-till?" 5. Do you think Voyager really had an aero-shuttle? Why didn't they use it? Was it in the plans but never made, or were some crucial parts going to arrive "next Tuesday" and Janeway had to leave with an incomplete ship because of the Maquis threat? 6. Is it really reasonable that there are only X torpedoes on Voyager? Surely they can replicate casings and trade for antimatter with other spacefaring races, right? 7. Would you have prefered Ro Laren to have starred on DS9 instead of Kira, as was in the original plans? 8. Are you a Wesley/Lefler shipper? 9. You think Captain Bateson was still in command of the Bozeman in First Contact, or was he swapping drinks with Scotty on Wrigley's Pleasure Planet? 10. Do you disregard all mention of lasers and lithium crystals and Vulcanians and time-warp factors in the early episodes of TOS, or do you think that they really were in a transition period in the mid-2260s? 11. Those STTMP uniforms really did stink, didn't they? 12. You think that Commodore is still a valid rank in the 24th century? 13. Should Picard have retired to serve as Commandant of Starfleet Academy and given the Enterprise to Riker a long time ago? I think so. 14. You think Riker's ticked off that Janeway made Admiral before he did? They are in the same class, you know. 15. You really think it would've been an "unheroic dead" if Soran had just shoot Kirk in the back, like it was originally shot? 16. If there was one Trek game that Paramount decided to market in real life, which game? Taking out Fizzbin as insanely complicated, would you prefer Parrises Squares, Kalto, Anbo-jytsu, Tongo, Dabo, what?
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mudshark: Nate's just being...Nate. Zeke: It comes nateurally to him. mudshark: I don't expect Nate to make sense, really -- it's just a bad idea. Sa'ar Chasm on the 5M.net forum: Sit back, relax, and revel in the insanity. Adam Savage: I reject your reality and substitute my own! Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity. Crow T. Robot: Oh, stop pretending there's a plot. Don't cheapen yourself further. |
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"Please, Aslan," said Lucy, "what do you call soon?" "I call all times soon," said Aslan; and instantly he vanished away and Lucy was alone with the Magician. |
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Now this is more like it!
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In any case, I'm still a little lost with the Enterprise/star trek timeline. Is the 'normal' timeline, the Xindi joining the federation? Before the sphere builders came along? Turned them against Earth before Archer turned them back into friends. Or were the Xindi not really around at all. Maybe the normal timeline was just: -Federation knows of Xindi, but not really close. -Federation stops the Builders -Builders go back and find the Xindi are a good way of stopping Humans forming the Federation. It's only this action that brought the Federation into real contact with the Xindi. So they wouldn't have been around much in TOS or TNG we watched. I guess that would make Enterprise a alt-universe thing??? Or are the writers saying that all this time travel/cold war stuff was always part of Trek history? In that case......I'm lost. Quote:
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But clearly the writers didn't want to add it to the show. However a few lines saying something like....'It's a pity we can't use the aero-shuttle because...' - add reason, would have sorted everything out! I did read an idea a while back that what we saw was a outer casing, put in place because the shuttle was never installed. Quote:
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I vote yes. (The Bozeman was mentioned in Generations too. I think that was them too!) Quote:
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I liked Strategema. Either that or Kalto
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Fate: Protects fools, little children and ships named Enterprise... Fate: Also beats the merry hell out of the Battlestar Galactica. -------------------------------------------------- House Quote of the Day! "I was curious. But since I'm not a cat, that's not dangerous to me." Dr House MD I don't think that metaphor was actually designed to warn cats. Dr Wilson MD (Just) ------------------------------------------------- |
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Also, make-up is an expensive and time consuming process. There's a reason almost everyone you see on most of the shows (perhaps excepting DS9) is human. Quote:
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I liked the idea that they would be limited in resources, but it never really panned out. It's pretty much the same thing that happened with the original Battlestar Galactica. A dire situation... then Space Casinos! That doesn't mean it has to be taken in the absolute opposite direction that the new BSG has. But I do think, "Year of Hell" aside, Voyager's way-optimistic direction was somewhat unrealistic. Quote:
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A very good thing they thought otherwise. Quote:
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YOU READ IT... ...YOU CAN\'T UNREAD IT! |
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I actually like TMP a lot. It's a good movie, and I will never say otherwise, but it is not without its faults. One of those flaws, in my opinion, is the uniforms. They were too bland. Instead of taking the extreme of TOS, where the uniform colors were bright-red, bright-yellow, and bright-blue, they decided to run to the other end and have many different colored uniforms, all variations on ecru. I appreciate the attempt, but I think the colors should have been a bit more contrasting for the audience's sake. Of course, their next attempt was to remove practically all uniform distinctions, so what do I know? Having now successfully defended my TMP-cred, which was probably never in danger to being with, I return to the mists of the internet.
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"Please, Aslan," said Lucy, "what do you call soon?" "I call all times soon," said Aslan; and instantly he vanished away and Lucy was alone with the Magician. |
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I have read Ship of the Line. Good one. But even Pocket Books Trek novels aren't canon.
Was Grammer's voice heard over the comm link? Confimation on this, please? Maybe I should spend some time on the aeroshuttle. Basically it's the "Captain's Yacht" of Voyager. Same location, but it looked a lot more like a runabout than the E-D yacht. I've been wondering about that, because it would've served most of the functions of the Delta Flyer, plus that's a LOT of wasted space if the thing just wasn't finished being built. Okay, whether or not Stewart is a better actor than Frakes (e-mail for my opinion, that's a topic for another day), it doesn't matter, we are talking about PICARD and RIKER. The fictional characters, not the actors. Jim Wright wants a Kalto set. I would personally like a Tongo set.
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mudshark: Nate's just being...Nate. Zeke: It comes nateurally to him. mudshark: I don't expect Nate to make sense, really -- it's just a bad idea. Sa'ar Chasm on the 5M.net forum: Sit back, relax, and revel in the insanity. Adam Savage: I reject your reality and substitute my own! Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity. Crow T. Robot: Oh, stop pretending there's a plot. Don't cheapen yourself further. |
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I just really didn't see a problem with the TMP uniforms. They certainly never took me out of the movie.
And who is the better actor makes all the difference in that question, I'm sorry. My answer is based on who I would rather watch in the show's most crucial role. I don't think Frakes would pull it off with nearly the kickassery of Stewart's performance. And I'm glad he never took over.
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YOU READ IT... ...YOU CAN\'T UNREAD IT! |
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1) Xindi 1: This sucks!
Xindi 2: Yeah! Xindi 1: Let's get tacos! Xindi 2: Yeah, tacos! Pity that the next taco stand was deep in Borg territory. 2) Mark 2, atleast insofar as it immobilizes the victim much quicker and is more visually impressive - it *looks* far more high tech. Sure, manual implants are much more plausible, but I don't care. 3) *wiggles ears* What do you think? 4) Few-tile 4 life, homie. 5) I like the "just a cover installed" theory - otherwise, I guess it's plausible that they thought it wasn't suited to their mission and dismantled it for spare parts, then later purpose-built the Delta Flyer to take its position. 6) Since I like the "replicators can do a lot, even manufacture shuttles", I'm thinking that the limiting factor was some complicated part in the electronics that they had to figure out how to manufacture first. I've read some theories that shuttles can be replicated except for the warp coils, and I figure the warp sustainer engine on a torpedo has similar problems. They either figured that out or went "Screw that, we need torpedos, build them without it." Anyone ever counted the torpedos fired at warp? Those could, presumably, be only the 40 or so Voyager came with if they saved them for those kinda situations. 7) Somewhat. I found Kira very annoying until she mellowed out a bit, and I have a feeling they wouldn't have written Ro that way and later gone much the same route. However, Kira was also supposed to be annoying, so seeing her come around to being a Federation fanbabe does count as character development...No strong feelings either way, I guess. 8) Definately. The more they fall in love, the less screentime Wesley gets. (Or maybe he finally grows up a bit.) 9) Still in command. Starfleet captains are notoriously hard to convince to retire...even if they do, they have a tendency to come back for more. As long as he's got a pulse, he's the Cap'n! 10) Disregard. 11) I can't actually think of an uniform design I really liked, except perhaps the Enterprise jumpsuits. Everything else doesn't look very...uniformy to me. Then again, the best idea they ever had was putting Troi in a "proper" uniform. Clearly someone understood that you can cover up more and still come out sexier. Uh, but about TMP: I don't know. They mildly annoy me, I guess. 12) I like the sound of it, but I don't think you can legitimately call anyone Commodore who hasn't ever been on a ship with sails. (Hm, Commodore Picard...) 13) Picard is clearly in the "lessons learned from Kirk" department: Never give up the ship. As for Riker, he's got the frakkin Titan now. (As an aside, I would've washed Riker out a long time ago for refusing promotions like that. It's a wonder he made Captain at all. Certainly wouldn't have given him the Enterprise.) 14) He's got nobody to blame but himself. He clearly had offers for a Captain's promotion before Voyager started, and Janeway was also pretty fresh there, so it's not like she had a massive headstart. Then again, I don't know if Janeway is to be admired at all here - I think they Kirked her (see 13) to make sure she'd never go off on a tangent again. Sure, it's a promotion, but they can't fire her or risk putting her on another ship, so where do you put her so you can keep an eye on her? 15) If he gets to be somewhat heroic, I wouldn't have minded. The whole movie is a kind of "The bigger they are, the harder they fall" story. I'm far more sore over the pimpslapping of the Ent-D. (Though I gotta say that the Ent-E is one sweet piece of ship.) 16) 3D chess. I wouldn't mind some Mok'bara dojos, either. Gatac
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Katy: Can I have the skill 'drive car off bridge and have parachute handy'? Justin: It's kind of a limited skill. Greg: Depends on how often you drive off bridges. - d02 Quotes |
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Good idea for a thread, Nate.
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It bugged me that the Borg's new look was retconned into the past, but then, I think it was silly to explain the change in Klingon foreheads, so I can't really complain. Quote:
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FiveMinute.net: because stuff is long and life is short [03:17] FiveMinZeke: Galactica clearly needs the advanced technology of scissors, which get around the whole "yanking on your follicles" problem. [03:17] IJD: cylons can hack any blades working in conjunction |
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Are you calling my reign ILLEGITIMATE?
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The Sixth will rise again! |
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Finally, to Zuke: It was April 1st. You picked the one day of the year no one would believe you. That is neither foresightful nor legitimate. So :P to you.
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Sig v8.2.2 No, I don't know what I'm doing, but I'm going to go and do it anyway. *pokes avatar* Made by a good LJ friend. Thanks Ani! Dark Blues: I'm going to kill you! Enzan: Not if I kill me first! Dark Blues: You...are aware my goal is accomplished either way, right? Enzan: ...Yeah... |
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I'm not quite sure what the Aeroshuttle was supposed to be or do. Was it a kinda of...Captains yacht? Because would Voyager really need one of them? Being a...Mission specialist type ship. And 'Aeroshuttle' doesn't really give the impression of a diplomatic ship. Sounds to me, more like a really fast shuttle? Or a shuttle designed to work in a planets atmosphere? Anyway, the only canon stuff I can find is something from Enterprise, funny enough. And it's not really enough to prove its existence. But have a check here:
http://www.memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Aeroshuttle
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Fate: Protects fools, little children and ships named Enterprise... Fate: Also beats the merry hell out of the Battlestar Galactica. -------------------------------------------------- House Quote of the Day! "I was curious. But since I'm not a cat, that's not dangerous to me." Dr House MD I don't think that metaphor was actually designed to warn cats. Dr Wilson MD (Just) ------------------------------------------------- |
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I'm for the "Janeway left Dodge in a hurry, the Aeroshuttle wasn't quite finished, she stripped it for parts a long time ago" theory.
Okay, replicating shuttles and replicating torpedoes are not equivalent. I imagine that the computer is a LOT simpler on a torpedo, plus it's easier to make a warp sustainer engine than a full warp core. Tuvok: Kal-toh is to chess as chess is to tic-tac-toe. Of course people counted. Janeway said that there were X torpedos and that they can't get any more. She was figuratively screaming at the viewer to Do The Math. There are entire websites devoted to keeping track of crewman, Maquis, shuttlecraft, lightyears travelled, etc. That's the funny part, they should've jumped into Beta Quadrant at about mid-season six.
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mudshark: Nate's just being...Nate. Zeke: It comes nateurally to him. mudshark: I don't expect Nate to make sense, really -- it's just a bad idea. Sa'ar Chasm on the 5M.net forum: Sit back, relax, and revel in the insanity. Adam Savage: I reject your reality and substitute my own! Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity. Crow T. Robot: Oh, stop pretending there's a plot. Don't cheapen yourself further. |
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Or if he was captain and the ship did blow up, then it would keep blowing up over and over.
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"Please, Aslan," said Lucy, "what do you call soon?" "I call all times soon," said Aslan; and instantly he vanished away and Lucy was alone with the Magician. |
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Space is big, remember? It was clear that the Xindi were in a fairly out-of-the-way spot. We don't even see all the races who occupy territory immediately adjacent to Federation space in every series. Quote:
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Anbo-jitsu was just silly. "Pugilism while bouncing on a trampoline" had been done years earlier in The Prisoner, anyway.
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Methinks Ted Sturgeon was too kind. 'Yes, but I think some people should be offended.' -- John Cleese (on whether he thought some might be offended by Monty Python) Last edited by mudshark; 10-19-2006 at 03:49 PM. |
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1. The spherebuilders got angry, and the entire Xindi race were pulled into the anti-time universe, where they were destroyed by the peculiar stresses of anti-time.
2. Mk II. Much more visually impressive, as Gatac said. 3. Genetic differences, different subspecies, maybe? Maybe just adaption to different climates on Andor - some people burn very easily, some people don't - maybe the antenna have special roles for some Andorians... 4. "Few-tile", et non sanz droit. 5. I think Voyager didn't need one, since it apparently had infinite supplies of shuttles. This is one thing I *really* hate about Voyager. 6. Ahh, yes. They only have X amount, which mysteriously re-stock every episode. See my response to 5. 7. Hell no. Kira was cool, Ro was annoying. 8. Hell no. The only 'ship I liked was Odo/Kira, partly because it wasn't as half-baked as most of the rest, IMO. 9. No idea. 10. Just early continuity errors. Happens with every sci-fi show. 11. Which ones? The pyjamas, or the red thingies? I quite liked the red thingies. 12. Yes, dammit. Just because we don't *see* any, doesn't mean they don't exist. I suspect it's a special rank for members of Section 31, though. It sounds important, without actually claiming the highest ranks... 13. No. Riker's a a prat. 14. Probably. Riker should have died a long time ago. 15. I think Kirk stayed alive far too long. 16. Tongo and Kal-toh. And maybe Domm-jot (sp?)
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O to be wafted away From this black aceldama of sorrow; Where the dust of an earthy today Is the earth of a dusty tomorrow! |
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Oh, yeah, the red uniforms are amongst the best ones in all of Trek. I think we can all agree on this. Totally naval, you can tell one rank from another without craning your neck to stare at the other guy's collar. Plus those boots actually looked like functional boots that you could go traipsing around strange new worlds in.
Can anyone tell me what's so wrong with Riker? For that matter, I've heard people bash Chakotay a lot, too. They're second in command, they are not the stars of their shows. They have to deal with the second-fiddle role consistently. When it comes to Klingons, I kinda preferred the notion that there were two different dominant races in the Klingon Empire. Maybe the turtle-headed guys from Kronos/Q'onos bumped into the mongol guys from Klinzhai hundreds of years ago, and they just combined forces into one Empire. Remember Klinzhai? It fell into a plot hole years ago, along with Romii. For that matter, maybe smooth-browed Romulans are from Romii and the furrowed-brow Romulans are from Romulus, you never know. It suddenly occurs to me that the Tal Shiar, the Obsidian Order, and Section 31 really didn't fulfill identical roles. The Tal Shiar is more of a shadow of the military, the Obsidian Order is the shadow of the bureaucracy, and Section 31 is the shadow of the populace.
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mudshark: Nate's just being...Nate. Zeke: It comes nateurally to him. mudshark: I don't expect Nate to make sense, really -- it's just a bad idea. Sa'ar Chasm on the 5M.net forum: Sit back, relax, and revel in the insanity. Adam Savage: I reject your reality and substitute my own! Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity. Crow T. Robot: Oh, stop pretending there's a plot. Don't cheapen yourself further. |
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Alright. Give me another explanation for the number of shuttles they had. It was either they made new ones, or they had a near-endless supply to begin with. Take your pick. Or maybe they had little blocks of metal (just add water!) that turned into shuttles.
Yes. But when it comes to logical games like chess and Kal-toh, the Vulcan mind is far more suited to thinking that way than the human mind. Therefore Kal-toh is on the same level to a Vulcan as chess is to a human. Chess would be to a Vulcan as tic-tac-toe is to a human. Of course. Section 31 is way more awesome than the other two. Never mind Sloane being a terrible agent, he was the only one we ever SAW. Unless you count Malcolm.
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Sig v8.2.2 No, I don't know what I'm doing, but I'm going to go and do it anyway. *pokes avatar* Made by a good LJ friend. Thanks Ani! Dark Blues: I'm going to kill you! Enzan: Not if I kill me first! Dark Blues: You...are aware my goal is accomplished either way, right? Enzan: ...Yeah... |
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Mason: Luckily we at the Agency use use a high-tech piece of software that will let us spot him instantly via high-res satellite images. Sergeant: You can? That's amazing! Mason: Yes. We call it 'Google Earth'. - Five Minute 24 S1 (it lives, honest!) "Everybody loves pie!" - Spongebob Squarepants Last edited by PointyHairedJedi; 10-19-2006 at 10:43 PM. |
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Hey, a Dilbert reference! Can't have enough of those.
A game more complicated than Fizzbin? Preposterous. As I saw it, every card had a different worth depending on the cards that are dealt before and after it, potentially leading to millions of combinations. But Holmes wasn't grooming Watson to take over. I thought that a major purpose of having a first officer in the first place is to give them that last little bit of polish before they take commands of their own.
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mudshark: Nate's just being...Nate. Zeke: It comes nateurally to him. mudshark: I don't expect Nate to make sense, really -- it's just a bad idea. Sa'ar Chasm on the 5M.net forum: Sit back, relax, and revel in the insanity. Adam Savage: I reject your reality and substitute my own! Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity. Crow T. Robot: Oh, stop pretending there's a plot. Don't cheapen yourself further. |
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