January 5

[PointyHairedJedi]

Hmm. This is all kinda... interesting. Though really, what I believe is of no consequence.

[Michiel]

In response to the whole AI/free will debate.

I've had many discussions about the free will part of the debate. When I tell some people my views they will not even consider them, because it would mean they'd have no 'free will'. But in my opinion, free will is one of those terms that isn't defined very clearly.

If you define free will as something that requires a human brain, then indeed, humans have free will and AI's never will. If, however, it is defined as a power that can influence that which has been predetermained from the beginning of existance (if there is such a thing,) I believe that free will doesn't exist at all.

Of course, free will is a handy concept. It is used in a lot of ways. For example, without it, the criminal-justice-system would collapse. And to quote Q, every society must control its disruptive elements. So if you MUST use the the concept, it could also apply to AI's. Before granting that 'status' to AI's, though, its programming should be examined to prove it does indeed have free will. Because I believe that some day, maybe even before AI's exist, we will have figured out (one of) the programming structure(s) that qualifies as human like intelligence.

[evay]

Originally Posted by Michiel

If you define free will as something that requires a human brain, then indeed, humans have free will and AI's never will. If, however, it is defined as a power that can influence that which has been predetermined from the beginning of existence (if there is such a thing,) I believe that free will doesn't exist at all.

I don't understand why these are your two options. Either free will only requires a human brain and the state of the rest of the universe is irrelevant, OR free will thwarts fate and the willer is irrelevant? Those are barely related. In fact, you could combine them into one person and eliminate the "or" of your conjecture. If you're presenting an either/or, don't the two have to be mutually exclusive? Either free will can ONLY come from a human brain or it's not "free will"? Either fate is predetermined and nothing has free will or There Is No Fate But What We Make? I'm confused about what you're trying to say.

[Michiel]

My point was that the words 'free will' are not clearly defined. If someone ever says that humans have free will and AI's never will (which is the case for a lot of people I've talked to about the subject), then they must use that defenition of free will (without the other one.)

I myself usually use the second defenition when I say that free will does not exist. I believe in 'fate' (the preprogrammed-ness of the universe.)

I'm sure there are MORE defenitions than those two. You can define it however you want. I don't believe any defenition is the 'correct' one. That's just a matter of language.

[Hotaru]

Definitions can change! They just need a little help. It can be hard to change....

Also, I don't believe in fate. Yay for Catholic school religion classes that beat the thought of fate out of my head! Yay!

[Gatac]

(re: January 11th update)

Like the teaser. Need to comment on short hair news.

First off, a disclaimer of sorts. I wear my hair long. I have a McGyver-ish mass of (black) hair reaching down to my shoulders, and if anything, it'll grow larger and not be trimmed down. I've flip-flopped between various hair lengths all my life, but I'm increasingly coming to the conclusion that I like it best that way. True, it needs a bit more care, but it's also a bit more expressive and looks - imho - friendlier. I also have a light beard, not overly pronounced, but it's there and there to stay.

Now, I fully understand why some people don't like long hair. It requires time to look good, and even then it flops around a bit. Also, no two long haircuts can be made to look alike, owing to the structure of one's basic hairstyle. A short cut, however, is easy to do, easy to take care of, and easy to make look uniform. Individuality? Forget about it. This is what the debate is about.

The whole shebang is similar to the school uniform debate and bull excrement of the same calibre. If you dress rowdies and loonies up nice, they're still rowdies and loonies, though they do look more respectable while beating up the smaller kids for lunch money. What's it supposed to be about? Sensory overload? The Jury finds the defendants STUPID. There.

And, really, don't get me started on school uniforms. I can wear a suit and make it look good, but that's because I'm able to decide for myself how it should look. Dressing everyone up exactly the same means that nobody looks good in it. And really, what's the point of that? (Other than adding to overall teenage depression, that is...)

Gatac

[Opium]

Originally Posted by evay

You are all such whining amateurs. Some of us have to be awake and rolling at five a.m. in order to be at work on time.

5 am? That's bedtime, not getting up time!
I often end up with a night schedule to my theatre activities...bedtime at 2 or 3 am, and getting up at around 9am or 10 am. In fact, even when I get up at noon, it probably means I didn't get to bed until 6am.

Of course, then sometimes my body protests my nightowlness, and makes me sleep at 8pm, and get up 4am.

[/ends TMI]

[Kira]

Originally Posted by Opium

5 am? That's bedtime, not getting up time!

My friend sent me an email with a list of signs you're getting "old." One of them was "You get up at 6 instead of going to bed at 6." It's sad because it's true. (The other good one was, "You only eat cereal at breakfast time.")

Originally Posted by Gatac

A short cut, however, is easy to do, easy to take care of, and easy to make look uniform. Individuality? Forget about it.

I think I speak for most if not all women when I say a short cut is also more appealing and less "ew." Girlfriend? Forget about it.

[Gatac]

Kira: Sounds like you've never seen long hair done right.

Gatac

[evay]

Originally Posted by Kira

I think I speak for most if not all women when I say a short cut is also more appealing and less "ew."

Depends on the gentleman in question, and what his hair looks like. C'mon, David Lee Roth sans blond mane? Dirk Benedict's Starbuck without the perfectly feathered flip? Legolas with Will Turner's mop? Can't make a blanket statement about hair length for either gender.

[Kira]

Gatac: There's a "done right"?

evay: Ew, the '70s don't count, and definitely better off without the waist-length blond mane.

[Sa'ar Chasm]

Girlfriend? Forget about it.

Sa'ar has short(ish) hair, and no girlfriend.

Explain that. :P

Actually, on second thought, I'm not sure I want you to.

[Gatac]

Kira: Yes, as far as I am concerned, there's a very definitive "done right", depending on whether you have naturally straight or curly hair. Unfortunately for me, it's easier with straight hair. (Mine's curly and won't straighten for the life of it.)

Gatac

[evay]

Originally Posted by Kira

Ew, the '70s don't count,

why not? We're talking about hair in general, not just 21st-century hair.

Originally Posted by Kira

and definitely better off without the waist-length blond mane.

I'm going to assume you're talking about DLR and not Legolas. I probably should've used Eddie Van Halen in that example; Diamond Dave's looking a bit tarnished these days. Although he is working as a paramedic in the Bronx, so he's forgiven for being a little run-down.

[Zeke]

I've tried the long hair thing. Even had a ponytail for a while. I could glorify it as an act of rebellion, but the thought process was really more like "Yikes, Dad's going bald fast. Better enjoy this hair while I've got it."

Also, Tom Cruise was so hot in Mission: Impossible 2....

-- Uh, not that I would notice, because I am straight as an arrow. AN ARROW I SAY.

Originally Posted by Kira

I think I speak for most if not all women when I say a short cut is also more appealing and less "ew." Girlfriend? Forget about it.

And conversely, for a man who's proud of his long hair, a girl is really the only reason that cuts it.

[Gatac]

Meh to homophobia; I'll join in saying that Tom Cruise looked damn good in MI2, and you can quote me on that. Now if only it was a better movie...

I think it's perfectly alright to discuss the relative beauty of both male and female celebrities regardless of one's sexual orientation.

Gatac

[Sa'ar Chasm]

Pagan friends of mine tell me that long hair is a sign of virility or a warrior or something.

I think it's the sign of someone with an acute fear of the barber.

(Says the guy who gets his hair cut once every four months whether he needs it or not.)

[Derek]

Originally Posted by Kira

I think I speak for most if not all women when I say a short cut is also more appealing and less "ew." Girlfriend? Forget about it. ;)

Heh. I'm sure you speak for my wife. She'd mentioned to me that I needed a haircut a couple of times over the past week or so, and when I got it caught on Monday, she was very happy.

But I've never really been one for growing my hair long. Nor facial hair for that matter. I had some big sideburns in high school, and I'd sometimes go a month or two without shaving in college, but I've never really preferred the look. Maybe if I lived up north, it'd make sense to grow a beard, but it sure doesn't down here in this sweltering heat. (Yes, sweltering. Even today.)

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by Gatac

Meh to homophobia

Oh, come on. That was not "homophobia" by any reasonable measure.

[Opium]

Originally Posted by Gatac

Meh to homophobia; I'll join in saying that Tom Cruise looked damn good in MI2, and you can quote me on that. Now if only it was a better movie...

I think it's perfectly alright to discuss the relative beauty of both male and female celebrities regardless of one's sexual orientation.

Gatac

Yay for a guy who can admit that other men can be beautiful!

As for guys with long or longish hair...Johnny Depp. Johnny Depp in "Secret Window". Johnny Depp in Once Upon A Time In Mexico. Johnny Depp in ...you get the picture! If it's done right, longish hair on a guy can look very good. However, not a lot of guys can pull it off really well. But some can. And how! *swoons over Johnny Depp*