The Five-Minute Forums  

Go Back   The Five-Minute Forums > FiveMinute.net > Miscellaneous

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 08-23-2006, 06:32 PM
Nate the Great's Avatar
Nate the Great Nate the Great is offline
Knate airrant
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 4,315
Default The Shatnerverse

This is a general discussion topic. I'm sure many of you have read the Shatnerverse novels (The Ashes of Eden, The Return, Avenger ...), and I'm wondering who thinks that they should be incorporated into the canon. Of course, First Contact and Nemesis threw a few wrenches into the works, but on the whole it holds together remarkably well.

As a secondary discussion topic, I know a lot of people hold the novels Mosaic and Pathways as canon for Voyager. Opinions?
__________________
mudshark: Nate's just being...Nate.
Zeke: It comes nateurally to him.

mudshark: I don't expect Nate to make sense, really -- it's just a bad idea.

Sa'ar Chasm on the 5M.net forum: Sit back, relax, and revel in the insanity.

Adam Savage: I reject your reality and substitute my own!

Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.

Crow T. Robot: Oh, stop pretending there's a plot. Don't cheapen yourself further.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 08-23-2006, 07:41 PM
Burt's Avatar
Burt Burt is offline
Hobbesian
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: We're......Everywhere! Wait wait wait... That's the Founders. No, I'm just in Hastings
Posts: 452
Send a message via MSN to Burt
Default

I can't say I've read the Pathways/Mosaic books, so I can't comment on them, but the Shantner ones are really quite good, and to be honest, could probery fit easy enough in with the real stuff. I mean 'The Return' was set after the Enterprise D's destruction, and, we don't really know what happend to the crew between that and First Contact. One intresting point I noticed is from the book 'Spectre', the fourth Shatner book. (Uumm...Spoilers?)
The book (Which is about the Mirror Universe) has a scene where 'our' Spock and the mirror Spock try to work out why the two universes changed. They find out that it was because of the whole First Contact thing, Borg attacking and all, that made Earth more paranoid. Then along comes 'In the Mirror Darkly'. I wonder why did the humans attack the Vulcans in that bit? Could Picard and co. have been the ones to create the mirror universe? Anyway, I'm guessing that the Reeves-Stevens's had some hand in the idea's of the episode (As they helped write the books).
__________________
Fate: Protects fools, little children and ships named Enterprise...
Fate: Also beats the merry hell out of the Battlestar Galactica.
--------------------------------------------------
House Quote of the Day!
"I was curious. But since I'm not a cat, that's not dangerous to me." Dr House MD
I don't think that metaphor was actually designed to warn cats.
Dr Wilson MD (Just)
-------------------------------------------------
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 08-23-2006, 08:46 PM
Chancellor Valium's Avatar
Chancellor Valium Chancellor Valium is offline
Reasonably priced male pills
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Rhen Var, sitting on a radiator...
Posts: 4,595
Send a message via MSN to Chancellor Valium
Default

Not read them, but they sound interesting.
__________________
O to be wafted away
From this black aceldama of sorrow;
Where the dust of an earthy today
Is the earth of a dusty tomorrow!
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 08-23-2006, 10:25 PM
Nate the Great's Avatar
Nate the Great Nate the Great is offline
Knate airrant
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 4,315
Default

To expound on the earlier comments, the Shatnerverse novels pinpoint exactly where our universe and the Mirror Universe separated. It occurs the morning after First Contact. Cochrane wakes up after an evening of drinking the Vulcans under the table and suddenly remembers the events of the movie. He remembers the Borg attack, the Enterprise-E, Riker, Troi, all of it. He knows that they drugged him to make him forget, but it didn't work. He knows that the implications of him telling the world about the Borg are monumental. In the end he decides to use a coin toss. Heads, he tells Lily and all the others about the existence of malevolent cyborgs in the universe. Tails, he stays silent about the whole thing. Our universe is the "tails" universe. No one knows about the Borg, so no extraordinary preparations for hostile aliens are made. The Mirror Universe is the "heads" universe. Earth unites a lot faster and the Borg are never a threat. Unfortunately, such preparations necessitate the creation of an Empire, not a Federation.

I like this idea and think it'd be great canon.

PS. I do regret that my favorite protrayal of Cochrane, in the novel Federation, has been rendered null and void. That was based on Trek canon as of about season five. In that book it's established that Cochrane built his ship, the Bonaventure, amidst all of the postatomic horror that's described in Encounter at Farpoint. It takes him a year to go to and from Alpha Centauri. His sponsor is Micah Brack, an insanely rich businessman (and an alter-ego of our favorite near-immortal, Flint). By the time he gets back, Colonel Green (of the Savage Curtain) has taken over and we're in the middle of the Eugenics Wars. Green's associate, Thorsen is obsessed with Cochrane's earlier work, including the possibility of a "warp bomb." Cochrane uses the basic warp field diagram (the Starfleet delta, complete with command insignia star) to prove such a weapon impossible. Go read the book for the details, it includes both Kirk and Picard's Enterprises having to help each other out of a black hole, a Preserver artifact hijaking Data's body, the brilliant destruction of a Romulan warbird, the real reason Cochrane ran away to the Companion's planet, and much much more.
__________________
mudshark: Nate's just being...Nate.
Zeke: It comes nateurally to him.

mudshark: I don't expect Nate to make sense, really -- it's just a bad idea.

Sa'ar Chasm on the 5M.net forum: Sit back, relax, and revel in the insanity.

Adam Savage: I reject your reality and substitute my own!

Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.

Crow T. Robot: Oh, stop pretending there's a plot. Don't cheapen yourself further.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 08-24-2006, 12:52 AM
Burt's Avatar
Burt Burt is offline
Hobbesian
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: We're......Everywhere! Wait wait wait... That's the Founders. No, I'm just in Hastings
Posts: 452
Send a message via MSN to Burt
Default

Anyone read the Star Trek Deep Space Nine Series 'Millennium'? I got them when they first came out, and seem to read them again and again. But I only just realised, how utterly fantastic they are! There are three; the first is more of a mystery novel and not too far from a DS9 episode to be honest.
The second book is set in the future, and is just great! It's like one of the 'reset episodes' (Like Yesterdays Enterprise or Twilight) where you want to know more about this terrible world and how it came to be, but instead of only seeing a bit before the 'reset', you find out many things. It's a dark future where most of the Klingon Empire is destroyed, and Cardassians are almost extinct. Starfleet is crumbling while trying to fight the Bajorans and their new evil allies and so desperate; there is even an alliance with the Borg…. All this because of the prophets and a war they're fighting. Throw in two wormholes and loads of cannon references – and you’ve got a good book.
And the last book is quite special too. It’s a kind of, ensemble cast type thing. The crew get back to on to DS9 and find it ‘flicking’ through time, from the day of the Cardassian withdrawal to other points. And all the unanswered questions from the first book are solved too!

Really is a fantastic series!
__________________
Fate: Protects fools, little children and ships named Enterprise...
Fate: Also beats the merry hell out of the Battlestar Galactica.
--------------------------------------------------
House Quote of the Day!
"I was curious. But since I'm not a cat, that's not dangerous to me." Dr House MD
I don't think that metaphor was actually designed to warn cats.
Dr Wilson MD (Just)
-------------------------------------------------
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 08-24-2006, 01:04 AM
Nate the Great's Avatar
Nate the Great Nate the Great is offline
Knate airrant
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 4,315
Default

I read Millennium a long time ago and liked it, but it's been too long. I can't remember anything about it.

So there are cannon references? What kind of balls do they use?
Sorry, had to make fun of a spelling error.
__________________
mudshark: Nate's just being...Nate.
Zeke: It comes nateurally to him.

mudshark: I don't expect Nate to make sense, really -- it's just a bad idea.

Sa'ar Chasm on the 5M.net forum: Sit back, relax, and revel in the insanity.

Adam Savage: I reject your reality and substitute my own!

Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.

Crow T. Robot: Oh, stop pretending there's a plot. Don't cheapen yourself further.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 08-24-2006, 10:16 AM
Gatac's Avatar
Gatac Gatac is offline
Man in the iron mask
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Magdeburg, Germany
Posts: 667
Send a message via ICQ to Gatac Send a message via AIM to Gatac
Default

The Shatnerverse novels ROCK. By that I don't mean "exceptional quality" (though they are pretty good), but that they're real rollercoaster, edge-of-your-seat action in the Trek universe.

I love them with all my heart, but I find it hard to reconcile the -quite frankly - bada$$ crews from the books with what we see on the screen. (Though Nemesis Picard makes a good start when he orders ramming speed...)

Gatac
__________________
Katy: Can I have the skill 'drive car off bridge and have parachute handy'?
Justin: It's kind of a limited skill.
Greg: Depends on how often you drive off bridges.
- d02 Quotes
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 08-24-2006, 02:42 PM
Burt's Avatar
Burt Burt is offline
Hobbesian
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: We're......Everywhere! Wait wait wait... That's the Founders. No, I'm just in Hastings
Posts: 452
Send a message via MSN to Burt
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatac View Post
The Shatnerverse novels ROCK. By that I don't mean "exceptional quality" (though they are pretty good), but that they're real rollercoaster, edge-of-your-seat action in the Trek universe.

I love them with all my heart, but I find it hard to reconcile the -quite frankly - bada$$ crews from the books with what we see on the screen. (Though Nemesis Picard makes a good start when he orders ramming speed...)

Gatac
lol. They are a little wimpy sometimes on the show. A friend of mine said he's surprised that some of the crew didn't faint when Riker said 'Bastard' on Insurrection. I mean, thats really angry for Star Trek. Past the punning (for Janeway) and shaking voice (For Sisko). When they say that - wow you know that commander is pissed off!

Infinite Improbability, don't you remember all the Cannons in the books? The Cannon to the left of them...Cannon to the right of them.....
__________________
Fate: Protects fools, little children and ships named Enterprise...
Fate: Also beats the merry hell out of the Battlestar Galactica.
--------------------------------------------------
House Quote of the Day!
"I was curious. But since I'm not a cat, that's not dangerous to me." Dr House MD
I don't think that metaphor was actually designed to warn cats.
Dr Wilson MD (Just)
-------------------------------------------------
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 08-25-2006, 12:02 AM
mark726's Avatar
mark726 mark726 is offline
Stellar
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Land of Corn
Posts: 147
Send a message via AIM to mark726 Send a message via MSN to mark726
Default

I have most of the Shatnerverse myself, and I very much enjoy it, personally. It makes a good transition, and there are a number of very interesting theories in it that almost hold true to the Canon.

I also loved the Millenium series. I wasn't even that much into DS9 when I read them (I mostly grabbed whatever Star Trek book I could find), but I loved it.

And Infinite, I have Federation. I loved it if only because it makes a great explanation of the Federation insignia, lol.
__________________
I'm a poster in search of a post.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 08-25-2006, 01:17 AM
Nate the Great's Avatar
Nate the Great Nate the Great is offline
Knate airrant
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 4,315
Default

Yeah, I'm glad that SOMEONE tried to explain what the Starfleet delta means. Remember when every ship had their own insignia and it wasn't until 2270 that all of Starfleet started using the delta? In Mister Scott's Guide to the Enterprise he even mentions that the big E is the only one of the initial twelve Constitution-class ships to come back to spacedock under it's own power after a full five-year mission.

Anyone have any theories why the colors for Science and Security/Command swapped? We still use redshirt, mainly because "yellowshirt" is a mouthful and not as much fun to say.
__________________
mudshark: Nate's just being...Nate.
Zeke: It comes nateurally to him.

mudshark: I don't expect Nate to make sense, really -- it's just a bad idea.

Sa'ar Chasm on the 5M.net forum: Sit back, relax, and revel in the insanity.

Adam Savage: I reject your reality and substitute my own!

Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.

Crow T. Robot: Oh, stop pretending there's a plot. Don't cheapen yourself further.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 08-26-2006, 02:01 AM
Zeke's Avatar
Zeke Zeke is offline
The lens that flares in the night
Administrator
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Ottawa, ON
Posts: 3,358
Send a message via ICQ to Zeke Send a message via AIM to Zeke Send a message via Yahoo to Zeke
Default

I've recommended Millennium on this site before, and I dig the Shatnerverse too (although I seriously, seriously doubt Shatner's high profile on these books reflects his contribution level). But for my money, the best Trek novel of all is The Devil's Heart by Carmen Carter. Be sure to pick that one up if you get the chance.
__________________
FiveMinute.net: because stuff is long and life is short

[03:17] FiveMinZeke: Galactica clearly needs the advanced technology of scissors, which get around the whole "yanking on your follicles" problem.
[03:17] IJD: cylons can hack any blades working in conjunction
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 08-26-2006, 02:59 AM
Nate the Great's Avatar
Nate the Great Nate the Great is offline
Knate airrant
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 4,315
Default

Yeah, the Reeve-Stevensons put out some good work, but I'm not touching the level of Shatner's contribution.

I own Devil's Heart, and it's okay, but I'm afraid that it falls under the category of "old-fashioned Trek." Before NextGen season five, DS9, the Renaissance of Trek, etc. the canon was very different. Mr. Scott's Guide to the Enterprise was fully supported, no one had a reason not to use the characters from the animated series in novels, Federation was fully supported, and so on. What with forteen seasons of DS9 and Voyager and four movies, the status quo of the pre-Cardassian episodes of NextGen and their supporting books have fallen into the pseudo-canon wasteland. Devil's Heart, along with another book I enjoyed at the time, Dark Mirror, has fallen by the wayside as totally incompatible. I liked Devil's Heart, but now when I read stuff like that, the nitpicking side of me has to jump in and say "that's inaccurate now! And that! So's that! Oh, and he'd never say that now! etc." Sad, really.
__________________
mudshark: Nate's just being...Nate.
Zeke: It comes nateurally to him.

mudshark: I don't expect Nate to make sense, really -- it's just a bad idea.

Sa'ar Chasm on the 5M.net forum: Sit back, relax, and revel in the insanity.

Adam Savage: I reject your reality and substitute my own!

Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.

Crow T. Robot: Oh, stop pretending there's a plot. Don't cheapen yourself further.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 06:18 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.