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  #1  
Old 10-18-2006, 07:07 PM
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Nate the Great Nate the Great is offline
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Default Some Questions to Spur Discussion

Before we get into today's topic, I think I'll enjoy some echos from this cavernous stretch of cyberspace that I seem to be enjoying.

Nate: Hello.....
Echo1: .........Hello......
Echo2: .....................Hello......
All: Hello!

Just some random questions to encourage posting:

1. What do you think really happened to the Xindi in the hundred years before Kirk? Are they still there and we just never saw one, or were they assimilated by the Borg when no one was looking, or what?
2. Do you prefer Mark One Assimilation (beam you away and insert implants manually and probably surgically) or Mark Two Assimilation (inject you with nanoprobes and manufacture implants using metal from hammerspace)? As a plot device, I mean, not as the way you'd prefer to be assimilated.
3. Can you think of a reason why Andorians' antennae never moved in TOS? Was it bred out of the genepool, or is it a trick that only certain Andorians can do, akin to wiggling ears?
4. Regardless of the way the dictionary says it, do you prefer "few-tile" or "few-till?"
5. Do you think Voyager really had an aero-shuttle? Why didn't they use it? Was it in the plans but never made, or were some crucial parts going to arrive "next Tuesday" and Janeway had to leave with an incomplete ship because of the Maquis threat?
6. Is it really reasonable that there are only X torpedoes on Voyager? Surely they can replicate casings and trade for antimatter with other spacefaring races, right?
7. Would you have prefered Ro Laren to have starred on DS9 instead of Kira, as was in the original plans?
8. Are you a Wesley/Lefler shipper?
9. You think Captain Bateson was still in command of the Bozeman in First Contact, or was he swapping drinks with Scotty on Wrigley's Pleasure Planet?
10. Do you disregard all mention of lasers and lithium crystals and Vulcanians and time-warp factors in the early episodes of TOS, or do you think that they really were in a transition period in the mid-2260s?
11. Those STTMP uniforms really did stink, didn't they?
12. You think that Commodore is still a valid rank in the 24th century?
13. Should Picard have retired to serve as Commandant of Starfleet Academy and given the Enterprise to Riker a long time ago? I think so.
14. You think Riker's ticked off that Janeway made Admiral before he did? They are in the same class, you know.
15. You really think it would've been an "unheroic dead" if Soran had just shoot Kirk in the back, like it was originally shot?
16. If there was one Trek game that Paramount decided to market in real life, which game? Taking out Fizzbin as insanely complicated, would you prefer Parrises Squares, Kalto, Anbo-jytsu, Tongo, Dabo, what?
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  #2  
Old 10-18-2006, 07:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Infinite Improbability View Post
1. What do you think really happened to the Xindi in the hundred years before Kirk? Are they still there and we just never saw one, or were they assimilated by the Borg when no one was looking, or what?
What happened to Andorians during TNG and later beyond a few passing mentions? Either Xindi became reclusive or they joined the Federation quietly. Maybe none of them were especially keen on joining Starfleet.

Quote:
2. Do you prefer Mark One Assimilation (beam you away and insert implants manually and probably surgically) or Mark Two Assimilation (inject you with nanoprobes and manufacture implants using metal from hammerspace)? As a plot device, I mean, not as the way you'd prefer to be assimilated.
Well, technically, there's just one kind. They inject you with nanoprobes, and then later they add metal stuff. But assimilation did seem to go a lot differently as time progressed. Like many things about the Borg.

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3. Can you think of a reason why Andorians' antennae never moved in TOS? Was it bred out of the genepool, or is it a trick that only certain Andorians can do, akin to wiggling ears?
See question 10.

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4. Regardless of the way the dictionary says it, do you prefer "few-tile" or "few-till?"
I say it either way. I also say either either way.

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5. Do you think Voyager really had an aero-shuttle? Why didn't they use it? Was it in the plans but never made, or were some crucial parts going to arrive "next Tuesday" and Janeway had to leave with an incomplete ship because of the Maquis threat?
Don't really know much about an "aero-shuttle." Sorry.

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6. Is it really reasonable that there are only X torpedoes on Voyager? Surely they can replicate casings and trade for antimatter with other spacefaring races, right?
I'd think so, though of course in a crunch time, you can't quite pop them out of nowhere. And perhaps you couldn't refine the antimatter (if that makes sense) as well on a ship as you could at a facility.

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7. Would you have prefered Ro Laren to have starred on DS9 instead of Kira, as was in the original plans?
No.

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8. Are you a Wesley/Lefler shipper?
My shippiness in general is set to a very low level. I don't care who hooks up with who.

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9. You think Captain Bateson was still in command of the Bozeman in First Contact, or was he swapping drinks with Scotty on Wrigley's Pleasure Planet?
It was Bateson on the Bozeman. I'm just sure of it.

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10. Do you disregard all mention of lasers and lithium crystals and Vulcanians and time-warp factors in the early episodes of TOS, or do you think that they really were in a transition period in the mid-2260s?
The first one.

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11. Those STTMP uniforms really did stink, didn't they?
Yes.

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12. You think that Commodore is still a valid rank in the 24th century?
Apparently not, or else we'd've seen them.

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13. Should Picard have retired to serve as Commandant of Starfleet Academy and given the Enterprise to Riker a long time ago? I think so.
No, Riker should have had his own command a long time ago. Really, he should have had it during BoBW, but certainly by First Contact.

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14. You think Riker's ticked off that Janeway made Admiral before he did? They are in the same class, you know.
Riker's been standing still as a Commander for a very long time. Too long.

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15. You really think it would've been an "unheroic dead" if Soran had just shoot Kirk in the back, like it was originally shot?
Don't know. Would have to see it.

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16. If there was one Trek game that Paramount decided to market in real life, which game? Taking out Fizzbin as insanely complicated, would you prefer Parrises Squares, Kalto, Anbo-jytsu, Tongo, Dabo, what?
3D chess.
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  #3  
Old 10-18-2006, 09:00 PM
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Now this is more like it!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Infinite Improbability View Post
1. What do you think really happened to the Xindi in the hundred years before Kirk? Are they still there and we just never saw one, or were they assimilated by the Borg when no one was looking, or what?
Maybe we just didn't hear from them around then? Think about now. Do you hear much about the Native Americans on TV? Or the Australian Aboriginals?
In any case, I'm still a little lost with the Enterprise/star trek timeline. Is the 'normal' timeline, the Xindi joining the federation? Before the sphere builders came along? Turned them against Earth before Archer turned them back into friends. Or were the Xindi not really around at all. Maybe the normal timeline was just:
-Federation knows of Xindi, but not really close.
-Federation stops the Builders
-Builders go back and find the Xindi are a good way of stopping Humans forming the Federation.
It's only this action that brought the Federation into real contact with the Xindi. So they wouldn't have been around much in TOS or TNG we watched. I guess that would make Enterprise a alt-universe thing??? Or are the writers saying that all this time travel/cold war stuff was always part of Trek history? In that case......I'm lost.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Infinite Improbability View Post
2. Do you prefer Mark One Assimilation (beam you away and insert implants manually and probably surgically) or Mark Two Assimilation (inject you with nanoprobes and manufacture implants using metal from hammerspace)? As a plot device, I mean, not as the way you'd prefer to be assimilated.
Gotta go with Derek on this. They inject you then add the other stuff. But it does still seem to have changed a lot. They seemed to take a lot longer making over Picard that other later in the show. Either it's because Picard was a more special drone or maybe they found new and better ways to Assimilate. we discover new ways to do things quicker. I guess they would too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Infinite Improbability View Post
3. Can you think of a reason why Andorians' antennae never moved in TOS? Was it bred out of the genepool, or is it a trick that only certain Andorians can do, akin to wiggling ears?
I'd guess the wagging ears things

Quote:
Originally Posted by Infinite Improbability View Post
4. Regardless of the way the dictionary says it, do you prefer "few-tile" or "few-till?"
Few-tile. All credit to Jeri Ryan as an actor, but Few-tile is much scarier

Quote:
Originally Posted by Infinite Improbability View Post
5. Do you think Voyager really had an aero-shuttle? Why didn't they use it? Was it in the plans but never made, or were some crucial parts going to arrive "next Tuesday" and Janeway had to leave with an incomplete ship because of the Maquis threat?
I have a Voyager model, and long before I heard anything about this aero-shuttle, I thought the bit on the underside looked like a ship. It looks too much like a ship not to be one.
But clearly the writers didn't want to add it to the show. However a few lines saying something like....'It's a pity we can't use the aero-shuttle because...' - add reason, would have sorted everything out! I did read an idea a while back that what we saw was a outer casing, put in place because the shuttle was never installed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Infinite Improbability View Post
6. Is it really reasonable that there are only X torpedoes on Voyager? Surely they can replicate casings and trade for antimatter with other spacefaring races, right?
Not really. Maybe there was something extra they needed to do, that we didn't know about. The ship did have antimatter. Maybe Janeway was worried about using that, and running out of fuel? Clearly they worked out something though, cos they used a lot more than they had at the start.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Infinite Improbability View Post
7. Would you have preferred Ro Laren to have starred on DS9 instead of Kira, as was in the original plans?
Utterly no. I like Ro, but I like Kira too much too have not had her there too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Infinite Improbability View Post
8. Are you a Wesley/Lefler shipper?
Not really no.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Infinite Improbability View Post
9. You think Captain Bateson was still in command of the Bozeman in First Contact, or was he swapping drinks with Scotty on Wrigley's Pleasure Planet?
Ever read 'Ship of the line'? Take out all the Bateson being an idiot bit's and I quite like the idea that Starfleet would go to all the trouble of refitting an old starship for the crew and captain. Because it's their only link to the past.
I vote yes. (The Bozeman was mentioned in Generations too. I think that was them too!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Infinite Improbability View Post
10. Do you disregard all mention of lasers and lithium crystals and Vulcanians and time-warp factors in the early episodes of TOS, or do you think that they really were in a transition period in the mid-2260s?
Sort of. Again things change names nowadays too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Infinite Improbability View Post
11. Those STTMP uniforms really did stink, didn't they?
Like some sort of dull cream nightmare

Quote:
Originally Posted by Infinite Improbability View Post
12. You think that Commodore is still a valid rank in the 24th century?
I think certain captains are more powerful than others. Thatís what the rank was really anyway? I think someone like Picard could pull rank on a smaller boarder ship.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Infinite Improbability View Post
13. Should Picard have retired to serve as Commandant of Starfleet Academy and given the Enterprise to Riker a long time ago? I think so.
Never!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Infinite Improbability View Post
14. You think Riker's ticked off that Janeway made Admiral before he did? They are in the same class, you know.
I'm shocked she made it before Picard! But not Riker. I don't even think he wanted to be a captain for years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Infinite Improbability View Post
15. You really think it would've been an "unheroic dead" if Soran had just shoot Kirk in the back, like it was originally shot?
Yeah

Quote:
Originally Posted by Infinite Improbability View Post
16. If there was one Trek game that Paramount decided to market in real life, which game? Taking out Fizzbin as insanely complicated, would you prefer Parrises Squares, Kalto, Anbo-jytsu, Tongo, Dabo, what?
I liked Strategema. Either that or Kalto
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  #4  
Old 10-18-2006, 09:39 PM
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Quote:
1. What do you think really happened to the Xindi in the hundred years before Kirk? Are they still there and we just never saw one, or were they assimilated by the Borg when no one was looking, or what?
I have heard that Baltimore has an unusual mix of ethnicities. I have not noticed this any time I have been there. That doesn't mean that the city is not ethnically diverse -- it only means that I've been presented with non-representitive samples of the community.

Also, make-up is an expensive and time consuming process. There's a reason almost everyone you see on most of the shows (perhaps excepting DS9) is human.

Quote:
2. Do you prefer Mark One Assimilation (beam you away and insert implants manually and probably surgically) or Mark Two Assimilation (inject you with nanoprobes and manufacture implants using metal from hammerspace)? As a plot device, I mean, not as the way you'd prefer to be assimilated.

3. Can you think of a reason why Andorians' antennae never moved in TOS? Was it bred out of the genepool, or is it a trick that only certain Andorians can do, akin to wiggling ears?
I don't see much point in discussing practical in-universe explanations for make-up or aesthetic alterations.

Quote:
4. Regardless of the way the dictionary says it, do you prefer "few-tile" or "few-till?"
It's not a word I use often. Probably the former.

Quote:
5. Do you think Voyager really had an aero-shuttle? Why didn't they use it? Was it in the plans but never made, or were some crucial parts going to arrive "next Tuesday" and Janeway had to leave with an incomplete ship because of the Maquis threat?
They didn't use it because nobody remembered to write it into the script. Therefore, for all intents and purposes, the ship did not exist. Anything further is speculative.

Quote:
6. Is it really reasonable that there are only X torpedoes on Voyager? Surely they can replicate casings and trade for antimatter with other spacefaring races, right?
Maybe, but you can't use technology as a crux for everything. Then you get into the deus ex machina storytelling that has plagued pretty much all the modern Trek series.

I liked the idea that they would be limited in resources, but it never really panned out. It's pretty much the same thing that happened with the original Battlestar Galactica. A dire situation... then Space Casinos! That doesn't mean it has to be taken in the absolute opposite direction that the new BSG has. But I do think, "Year of Hell" aside, Voyager's way-optimistic direction was somewhat unrealistic.

Quote:
7. Would you have prefered Ro Laren to have starred on DS9 instead of Kira, as was in the original plans?
If she had, would much have been different? Writers take characters in directions that make sense. The show had a team of excellent writers. I'm sure they would have done fantastic things with her character as well. But I don't see the show being drastically different.

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8. Are you a Wesley/Lefler shipper?
I'm a "my fist"/"shippers' throats" shipper.

Quote:
9. You think Captain Bateson was still in command of the Bozeman in First Contact, or was he swapping drinks with Scotty on Wrigley's Pleasure Planet?
Didn't Kelsey Grammar lend his voice for the movie? I think that pretty much settles it.


Quote:
10. Do you disregard all mention of lasers and lithium crystals and Vulcanians and time-warp factors in the early episodes of TOS, or do you think that they really were in a transition period in the mid-2260s?
I don't discount them. I don't try to encorporate them with the rest of the universe either. Those are minor details with little-to-no impact on how the story was told.

Quote:
11. Those STTMP uniforms really did stink, didn't they?
Begging the question much? I thought they were fine. There was more differentiation between departments than any other uniform before or since. It's too cool to hate on TMP. Flawed, sure. But no more or less so than the other Trek films.

Quote:
12. You think that Commodore is still a valid rank in the 24th century?
IRL, between the shows, the navy renamed "Commodore" to "Rear Admiral". TPTB chose to do the same. Seems reasonable to me.

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13. Should Picard have retired to serve as Commandant of Starfleet Academy and given the Enterprise to Riker a long time ago? I think so.
Patrick Stewart is 10x the actor Jonathon Frakes is.

(no)

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14. You think Riker's ticked off that Janeway made Admiral before he did? They are in the same class, you know.
I think he cries himself to sleep.

Quote:
15. You really think it would've been an "unheroic dead" if Soran had just shoot Kirk in the back, like it was originally shot?
Yes, and fans everywhere would have torched Moore and Braga's houses.

A very good thing they thought otherwise.

Quote:
16. If there was one Trek game that Paramount decided to market in real life, which game? Taking out Fizzbin as insanely complicated, would you prefer Parrises Squares, Kalto, Anbo-jytsu, Tongo, Dabo, what?
3D chess, definitely. I would love to learn that.
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  #5  
Old 10-19-2006, 01:52 AM
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Originally Posted by ijdgaf View Post
Begging the question much? I thought they were fine. There was more differentiation between departments than any other uniform before or since. It's too cool to hate on TMP. Flawed, sure. But no more or less so than the other Trek films.
This statement is obviously not directed at me. Therefore I must defend myself.

I actually like TMP a lot. It's a good movie, and I will never say otherwise, but it is not without its faults. One of those flaws, in my opinion, is the uniforms. They were too bland. Instead of taking the extreme of TOS, where the uniform colors were bright-red, bright-yellow, and bright-blue, they decided to run to the other end and have many different colored uniforms, all variations on ecru. I appreciate the attempt, but I think the colors should have been a bit more contrasting for the audience's sake.

Of course, their next attempt was to remove practically all uniform distinctions, so what do I know?

Having now successfully defended my TMP-cred, which was probably never in danger to being with, I return to the mists of the internet.
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  #6  
Old 10-19-2006, 02:01 AM
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I have read Ship of the Line. Good one. But even Pocket Books Trek novels aren't canon.

Was Grammer's voice heard over the comm link? Confimation on this, please?

Maybe I should spend some time on the aeroshuttle. Basically it's the "Captain's Yacht" of Voyager. Same location, but it looked a lot more like a runabout than the E-D yacht. I've been wondering about that, because it would've served most of the functions of the Delta Flyer, plus that's a LOT of wasted space if the thing just wasn't finished being built.

Okay, whether or not Stewart is a better actor than Frakes (e-mail for my opinion, that's a topic for another day), it doesn't matter, we are talking about PICARD and RIKER. The fictional characters, not the actors.

Jim Wright wants a Kalto set. I would personally like a Tongo set.
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Old 10-19-2006, 03:48 AM
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I just really didn't see a problem with the TMP uniforms. They certainly never took me out of the movie.

And who is the better actor makes all the difference in that question, I'm sorry. My answer is based on who I would rather watch in the show's most crucial role. I don't think Frakes would pull it off with nearly the kickassery of Stewart's performance. And I'm glad he never took over.
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Old 10-19-2006, 05:02 AM
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1) Xindi 1: This sucks!
Xindi 2: Yeah!
Xindi 1: Let's get tacos!
Xindi 2: Yeah, tacos!

Pity that the next taco stand was deep in Borg territory.

2) Mark 2, atleast insofar as it immobilizes the victim much quicker and is more visually impressive - it *looks* far more high tech. Sure, manual implants are much more plausible, but I don't care.

3) *wiggles ears* What do you think?

4) Few-tile 4 life, homie.

5) I like the "just a cover installed" theory - otherwise, I guess it's plausible that they thought it wasn't suited to their mission and dismantled it for spare parts, then later purpose-built the Delta Flyer to take its position.

6) Since I like the "replicators can do a lot, even manufacture shuttles", I'm thinking that the limiting factor was some complicated part in the electronics that they had to figure out how to manufacture first. I've read some theories that shuttles can be replicated except for the warp coils, and I figure the warp sustainer engine on a torpedo has similar problems. They either figured that out or went "Screw that, we need torpedos, build them without it." Anyone ever counted the torpedos fired at warp? Those could, presumably, be only the 40 or so Voyager came with if they saved them for those kinda situations.

7) Somewhat. I found Kira very annoying until she mellowed out a bit, and I have a feeling they wouldn't have written Ro that way and later gone much the same route. However, Kira was also supposed to be annoying, so seeing her come around to being a Federation fanbabe does count as character development...No strong feelings either way, I guess.

8) Definately. The more they fall in love, the less screentime Wesley gets. (Or maybe he finally grows up a bit.)

9) Still in command. Starfleet captains are notoriously hard to convince to retire...even if they do, they have a tendency to come back for more. As long as he's got a pulse, he's the Cap'n!

10) Disregard.

11) I can't actually think of an uniform design I really liked, except perhaps the Enterprise jumpsuits. Everything else doesn't look very...uniformy to me. Then again, the best idea they ever had was putting Troi in a "proper" uniform. Clearly someone understood that you can cover up more and still come out sexier.

Uh, but about TMP: I don't know. They mildly annoy me, I guess.

12) I like the sound of it, but I don't think you can legitimately call anyone Commodore who hasn't ever been on a ship with sails.

(Hm, Commodore Picard...)

13) Picard is clearly in the "lessons learned from Kirk" department: Never give up the ship. As for Riker, he's got the frakkin Titan now.

(As an aside, I would've washed Riker out a long time ago for refusing promotions like that. It's a wonder he made Captain at all. Certainly wouldn't have given him the Enterprise.)

14) He's got nobody to blame but himself. He clearly had offers for a Captain's promotion before Voyager started, and Janeway was also pretty fresh there, so it's not like she had a massive headstart. Then again, I don't know if Janeway is to be admired at all here - I think they Kirked her (see 13) to make sure she'd never go off on a tangent again. Sure, it's a promotion, but they can't fire her or risk putting her on another ship, so where do you put her so you can keep an eye on her?

15) If he gets to be somewhat heroic, I wouldn't have minded. The whole movie is a kind of "The bigger they are, the harder they fall" story. I'm far more sore over the pimpslapping of the Ent-D.

(Though I gotta say that the Ent-E is one sweet piece of ship.)

16) 3D chess. I wouldn't mind some Mok'bara dojos, either.

Gatac
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  #9  
Old 10-19-2006, 06:53 AM
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Good idea for a thread, Nate.

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Originally Posted by Infinite Improbability View Post
1. What do you think really happened to the Xindi in the hundred years before Kirk? Are they still there and we just never saw one, or were they assimilated by the Borg when no one was looking, or what?
IJD's point is excellent; I'll just add that if you prefer them to be gone by TOS's time, it's easy to come up with a reason. I've done it twice on this site (though jokingly).

Quote:
2. Do you prefer Mark One Assimilation (beam you away and insert implants manually and probably surgically) or Mark Two Assimilation (inject you with nanoprobes and manufacture implants using metal from hammerspace)? As a plot device, I mean, not as the way you'd prefer to be assimilated.
Tim Lynch argued that the Borg are almost too powerful now. I agree, but what I love about the assimilation tubules is that they leave two punctures in the neck, making the parallel with vampires even more obvious than it already was.

It bugged me that the Borg's new look was retconned into the past, but then, I think it was silly to explain the change in Klingon foreheads, so I can't really complain.

Quote:
3. Can you think of a reason why Andorians' antennae never moved in TOS? Was it bred out of the genepool, or is it a trick that only certain Andorians can do, akin to wiggling ears?
Motors. Andorian antennae don't move naturally; special motors have to be installed. Sometime between ENT and TOS, they ran out.

Quote:
4. Regardless of the way the dictionary says it, do you prefer "few-tile" or "few-till?"
Use-less.

Quote:
5. Do you think Voyager really had an aero-shuttle? Why didn't they use it? Was it in the plans but never made, or were some crucial parts going to arrive "next Tuesday" and Janeway had to leave with an incomplete ship because of the Maquis threat?
Given that it was never mentioned and the Delta Flyer ended up taking its role, I think it's needlessly complicated to treat it as canon at all. I think of it more like "Ryker" and "Leslie Crusher."

Quote:
6. Is it really reasonable that there are only X torpedoes on Voyager? Surely they can replicate casings and trade for antimatter with other spacefaring races, right?
That's what I've always said, but nooooo, people had to count them.

Quote:
7. Would you have prefered Ro Laren to have starred on DS9 instead of Kira, as was in the original plans?
In retrospect, definitely not. At the time, probably. Hindsight is 20/20.

Quote:
8. Are you a Wesley/Lefler shipper?
No. I found the thing with her and Si Cwan in New Frontier more interesting, but that's relative: Lefler does not remotely interest me.

Quote:
9. You think Captain Bateson was still in command of the Bozeman in First Contact?
If it blew up, no. If it didn't, yes.

Quote:
10. Do you disregard all mention of lasers and lithium crystals and Vulcanians and time-warp factors in the early episodes of TOS, or do you think that they really were in a transition period in the mid-2260s?
Disregard. Every show has pilot anomalies.

Quote:
11. Those STTMP uniforms really did stink, didn't they?
I'm with Derek on this one. I'm all for Starfleet trying new things, but that doesn't extend to long underwear. (By the way, the reason for the bland colours was that someone, Wise maybe, felt they would be less distracting to the audience than the gaudy TOS uniforms.)

Quote:
12. You think that Commodore is still a valid rank in the 24th century?
Little-known fact: I made a bunch of suggestions between VVS8 and VVS9, one of which was promoting Janeway to Commodore since she would be leading a fleet, and having Chakotay step up to the command of Voyager. Another suggestion was having Barclay join the crew. For some reason, even though I'd discussed these ideas with SaRa beforehand, I nearly got my face bitten off for daring to post them in the Yahoo group. Yeah, VVS was a barrel of laughs.

Quote:
13. Should Picard have retired to serve as Commandant of Starfleet Academy and given the Enterprise to Riker a long time ago?
Booooring. Riker has his moments, but Picard is the heart and soul of TNG.

Quote:
14. You think Riker's ticked off that Janeway made Admiral before he did? They are in the same class, you know.
I think it could work to his favour. The bane of captains is admirals. Having Janeway in his corner should help.

Quote:
15. You really think it would've been an "unheroic dead" if Soran had just shoot Kirk in the back, like it was originally shot?
Yes. Of course, a lot of people were dissatisfied with the revised version too. There's no way to kill an iconic character without upsetting a lot of people.

Quote:
16. If there was one Trek game that Paramount decided to market in real life, which game? Taking out Fizzbin as insanely complicated, would you prefer Parrises Squares, Kalto, Anbo-jytsu, Tongo, Dabo, what?
Kal-toh. I don't know how in the world you would play it, but I want to.
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Old 10-19-2006, 06:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Gatac View Post
I like the sound of it, but I don't think you can legitimately call anyone Commodore who hasn't ever been on a ship with sails.
Are you calling my reign ILLEGITIMATE?
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Old 10-19-2006, 07:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Infinite Improbability View Post

1. What do you think really happened to the Xindi in the hundred years before Kirk? Are they still there and we just never saw one, or were they assimilated by the Borg when no one was looking, or what?
The Spherebuilders got mad at them for wrecking their plans and erased them from existence by going back and killing the first Xindi. Unfortuantely for them, this led to them also being erased from existence and doomed Enterprise NX-01 to obscurity.


Quote:
2. Do you prefer Mark One Assimilation (beam you away and insert implants manually and probably surgically) or Mark Two Assimilation (inject you with nanoprobes and manufacture implants using metal from hammerspace)? As a plot device, I mean, not as the way you'd prefer to be assimilated.
Number 2. Although I always saw more of a zombie, maybe insect parallel than a vampire one, though I grant that more complicated 'turning' methods is more like a lich.

Quote:
3. Can you think of a reason why Andorians' antennae never moved in TOS? Was it bred out of the genepool, or is it a trick that only certain Andorians can do, akin to wiggling ears?
Probably the second one.

Quote:
4. Regardless of the way the dictionary says it, do you prefer "few-tile" or "few-till?"
Second. Though I pronounce infrared as 'in-frared' so maybe I'm the wrong one to ask.


Quote:
5. Do you think Voyager really had an aero-shuttle? Why didn't they use it? Was it in the plans but never made, or were some crucial parts going to arrive "next Tuesday" and Janeway had to leave with an incomplete ship because of the Maquis threat?
Nope. I sincerely doubt they ever had one. If they did, though? Chakotay killed it.


Quote:
6. Is it really reasonable that there are only X torpedoes on Voyager? Surely they can replicate casings and trade for antimatter with other spacefaring races, right?
You mean like they did to replace the shuttles?


Quote:
7. Would you have prefered Ro Laren to have starred on DS9 instead of Kira, as was in the original plans?
Hell no. Kira was cool. Ro Laren should've had a bigger part, though.

Quote:
8. Are you a Wesley/Lefler shipper?
I'm not really an anyone/anyone 'shipper when it comes to TNG.


Quote:
9. You think Captain Bateson was still in command of the Bozeman in First Contact, or was he swapping drinks with Scotty on Wrigley's Pleasure Planet?
Bateson was too good to 'splodey. So no.


Quote:
10. Do you disregard all mention of lasers and lithium crystals and Vulcanians and time-warp factors in the early episodes of TOS, or do you think that they really were in a transition period in the mid-2260s?
A little of both. Mostly the first, though.


Quote:
11. Those STTMP uniforms really did stink, didn't they?
No more than the TOS dress uniforms.


Quote:
12. You think that Commodore is still a valid rank in the 24th century?
I can't see why it wouldn't be.


Quote:
13. Should Picard have retired to serve as Commandant of Starfleet Academy and given the Enterprise to Riker a long time ago? I think so.
Think of the academy students! No way.


Quote:
14. You think Riker's ticked off that Janeway made Admiral before he did? They are in the same class, you know.
Probably. Wouldn't you be?


Quote:
15. You really think it would've been an "unheroic dead" if Soran had just shoot Kirk in the back, like it was originally shot?
I dislike shooting people in the back...wait, that came out wrong.


Quote:
16. If there was one Trek game that Paramount decided to market in real life, which game? Taking out Fizzbin as insanely complicated, would you prefer Parrises Squares, Kalto, Anbo-jytsu, Tongo, Dabo, what?
Kal-toh. It looks like Vulcan chess or something.


Finally, to Zuke: It was April 1st. You picked the one day of the year no one would believe you. That is neither foresightful nor legitimate. So :P to you.
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  #12  
Old 10-19-2006, 12:56 PM
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I'm not quite sure what the Aeroshuttle was supposed to be or do. Was it a kinda of...Captains yacht? Because would Voyager really need one of them? Being a...Mission specialist type ship. And 'Aeroshuttle' doesn't really give the impression of a diplomatic ship. Sounds to me, more like a really fast shuttle? Or a shuttle designed to work in a planets atmosphere? Anyway, the only canon stuff I can find is something from Enterprise, funny enough. And it's not really enough to prove its existence. But have a check here:

http://www.memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Aeroshuttle
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  #13  
Old 10-19-2006, 01:19 PM
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Nate the Great Nate the Great is offline
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I'm for the "Janeway left Dodge in a hurry, the Aeroshuttle wasn't quite finished, she stripped it for parts a long time ago" theory.

Okay, replicating shuttles and replicating torpedoes are not equivalent. I imagine that the computer is a LOT simpler on a torpedo, plus it's easier to make a warp sustainer engine than a full warp core.

Tuvok: Kal-toh is to chess as chess is to tic-tac-toe.

Of course people counted. Janeway said that there were X torpedos and that they can't get any more. She was figuratively screaming at the viewer to Do The Math. There are entire websites devoted to keeping track of crewman, Maquis, shuttlecraft, lightyears travelled, etc. That's the funny part, they should've jumped into Beta Quadrant at about mid-season six.
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  #14  
Old 10-19-2006, 02:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeke View Post
If it blew up, no. If it didn't, yes.
Or if he was captain and the ship did blow up, then it would keep blowing up over and over.
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  #15  
Old 10-19-2006, 03:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Infinite Improbability View Post
1. What do you think really happened to the Xindi in the hundred years before Kirk? Are they still there and we just never saw one, or were they assimilated by the Borg when no one was looking, or what?
We just never saw one.

Space is big, remember? It was clear that the Xindi were in a fairly out-of-the-way spot. We don't even see all the races who occupy territory immediately adjacent to Federation space in every series.
Quote:
2. Do you prefer Mark One Assimilation (beam you away and insert implants manually and probably surgically) or Mark Two Assimilation (inject you with nanoprobes and manufacture implants using metal from hammerspace)? As a plot device, I mean, not as the way you'd prefer to be assimilated.
I never thought about it much, to be honest.
Quote:
3. Can you think of a reason why Andorians' antennae never moved in TOS? Was it bred out of the genepool, or is it a trick that only certain Andorians can do, akin to wiggling ears?
Probably like the forehead thing.
Quote:
4. Regardless of the way the dictionary says it, do you prefer "few-tile" or "few-till?"
The dictionary gives both. I usually use the latter pronunciation. I imagine it's one of those "depends where you were living when you first heard it" things.
Quote:
5. Do you think Voyager really had an aero-shuttle? Why didn't they use it? Was it in the plans but never made, or were some crucial parts going to arrive "next Tuesday" and Janeway had to leave with an incomplete ship because of the Maquis threat?
I never heard about it until after Voyager had concluded, and consequently don't feel like worrying about it a whole lot.
Quote:
6. Is it really reasonable that there are only X torpedoes on Voyager? Surely they can replicate casings and trade for antimatter with other spacefaring races, right?
The only thing we know is that at X time early on, that's how many there were. Could they have made more? Sure, why not?
Quote:
7. Would you have prefered Ro Laren to have starred on DS9 instead of Kira, as was in the original plans?
I quite liked Ro as a character, but I also quite liked Kira. If having Ro on DS9 means no Kira, then no -- I'm quite happy with what we got.
Quote:
8. Are you a Wesley/Lefler shipper?
The closest I ever got to being a shipper was a feeling of "Yes! About goddamn time!" when Tom and B'Elanna finally got on the same page in "Day of Honor". Wesley/Lefler? Meh. Never thought about it much.
Quote:
9. You think Captain Bateson was still in command of the Bozeman in First Contact, or was he swapping drinks with Scotty on Wrigley's Pleasure Planet?
Really getting into "who cares?" territory for me, here.
Quote:
10. Do you disregard all mention of lasers and lithium crystals and Vulcanians and time-warp factors in the early episodes of TOS, or do you think that they really were in a transition period in the mid-2260s?
Zeke pretty much said it above. Pretty trivial and not to be bothered about.
Quote:
11. Those STTMP uniforms really did stink, didn't they?
The 23rd-century equivalent of leisure suits. I never liked them much.
Quote:
12. You think that Commodore is still a valid rank in the 24th century?
Dunno. What does it say onscreen?
Quote:
13. Should Picard have retired to serve as Commandant of Starfleet Academy and given the Enterprise to Riker a long time ago? I think so.
Naah.
Quote:
14. You think Riker's ticked off that Janeway made Admiral before he did? They are in the same class, you know.
Hope so.
Quote:
15. You really think it would've been an "unheroic dead" if Soran had just shoot Kirk in the back, like it was originally shot?
As stated above, you really can't win, here. Killing Kirk is killing Kirk.
Quote:
16. If there was one Trek game that Paramount decided to market in real life, which game? Taking out Fizzbin as insanely complicated, would you prefer Parrises Squares, Kalto, Anbo-jytsu, Tongo, Dabo, what?
I kinda like kal-toh.

Anbo-jitsu was just silly. "Pugilism while bouncing on a trampoline" had been done years earlier in The Prisoner, anyway.
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  #16  
Old 10-19-2006, 05:34 PM
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1. The spherebuilders got angry, and the entire Xindi race were pulled into the anti-time universe, where they were destroyed by the peculiar stresses of anti-time.
2. Mk II. Much more visually impressive, as Gatac said.
3. Genetic differences, different subspecies, maybe? Maybe just adaption to different climates on Andor - some people burn very easily, some people don't - maybe the antenna have special roles for some Andorians...
4. "Few-tile", et non sanz droit.
5. I think Voyager didn't need one, since it apparently had infinite supplies of shuttles. This is one thing I *really* hate about Voyager.
6. Ahh, yes. They only have X amount, which mysteriously re-stock every episode. See my response to 5.
7. Hell no. Kira was cool, Ro was annoying.
8. Hell no. The only 'ship I liked was Odo/Kira, partly because it wasn't as half-baked as most of the rest, IMO.
9. No idea.
10. Just early continuity errors. Happens with every sci-fi show.
11. Which ones? The pyjamas, or the red thingies? I quite liked the red thingies.
12. Yes, dammit. Just because we don't *see* any, doesn't mean they don't exist. I suspect it's a special rank for members of Section 31, though. It sounds important, without actually claiming the highest ranks...
13. No. Riker's a a prat.
14. Probably. Riker should have died a long time ago.
15. I think Kirk stayed alive far too long.
16. Tongo and Kal-toh. And maybe Domm-jot (sp?)
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  #17  
Old 10-19-2006, 10:17 PM
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Oh, yeah, the red uniforms are amongst the best ones in all of Trek. I think we can all agree on this. Totally naval, you can tell one rank from another without craning your neck to stare at the other guy's collar. Plus those boots actually looked like functional boots that you could go traipsing around strange new worlds in.

Can anyone tell me what's so wrong with Riker? For that matter, I've heard people bash Chakotay a lot, too. They're second in command, they are not the stars of their shows. They have to deal with the second-fiddle role consistently.

When it comes to Klingons, I kinda preferred the notion that there were two different dominant races in the Klingon Empire. Maybe the turtle-headed guys from Kronos/Q'onos bumped into the mongol guys from Klinzhai hundreds of years ago, and they just combined forces into one Empire. Remember Klinzhai? It fell into a plot hole years ago, along with Romii. For that matter, maybe smooth-browed Romulans are from Romii and the furrowed-brow Romulans are from Romulus, you never know.

It suddenly occurs to me that the Tal Shiar, the Obsidian Order, and Section 31 really didn't fulfill identical roles. The Tal Shiar is more of a shadow of the military, the Obsidian Order is the shadow of the bureaucracy, and Section 31 is the shadow of the populace.
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  #18  
Old 10-19-2006, 10:39 PM
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Alright. Give me another explanation for the number of shuttles they had. It was either they made new ones, or they had a near-endless supply to begin with. Take your pick. Or maybe they had little blocks of metal (just add water!) that turned into shuttles.

Yes. But when it comes to logical games like chess and Kal-toh, the Vulcan mind is far more suited to thinking that way than the human mind. Therefore Kal-toh is on the same level to a Vulcan as chess is to a human. Chess would be to a Vulcan as tic-tac-toe is to a human.

Of course. Section 31 is way more awesome than the other two. Never mind Sloane being a terrible agent, he was the only one we ever SAW. Unless you count Malcolm.
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Old 10-19-2006, 10:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Infinite Improbability
1. What do you think really happened to the Xindi in the hundred years before Kirk? Are they still there and we just never saw one, or were they assimilated by the Borg when no one was looking, or what?
Like the dinosaurs, they took to hiding behind furniture only to appear when no-one is looking.
Quote:
2. Do you prefer Mark One Assimilation (beam you away and insert implants manually and probably surgically) or Mark Two Assimilation (inject you with nanoprobes and manufacture implants using metal from hammerspace)? As a plot device, I mean, not as the way you'd prefer to be assimilated.
I like the kind where they stick drills in people's eyes.
Quote:
3. Can you think of a reason why Andorians' antennae never moved in TOS? Was it bred out of the genepool, or is it a trick that only certain Andorians can do, akin to wiggling ears?
I can think of a reason. I'm not going to tell the likes of you though.
Quote:
4. Regardless of the way the dictionary says it, do you prefer "few-tile" or "few-till?"
We are the English language. Pronunciation is irrelevant. We will add your phonemic and etymological distintiveness to our own. Resistance is sucky.
Quote:
5. Do you think Voyager really had an aero-shuttle? Why didn't they use it? Was it in the plans but never made, or were some crucial parts going to arrive "next Tuesday" and Janeway had to leave with an incomplete ship because of the Maquis threat?
The original script had it that due to a specification error it was actually constructed from a hardwood, though it was still perfectly usable. However, Robert Beltran insisted that there was only room for one oak yacht on the show, and so the wooden aeroshuttle was quietly consigned to oblivion.
Quote:
6. Is it really reasonable that there are only X torpedoes on Voyager? Surely they can replicate casings and trade for antimatter with other spacefaring races, right?
They only really needed a shell and an engine. The other two components of a photon torpedo are actually a redshirt and an exploding rock, which is much cheaper than all that antimatter malarky and just as effective.
Quote:
7. Would you have prefered Ro Laren to have starred on DS9 instead of Kira, as was in the original plans?
That could have been interesting. It was only later in the series that I started to like Kira. Plus, her and Worf could have gone around making End-D in-jokes the whole time to really irritate the snot out of everyone else.
Quote:
8. Are you a Wesley/Lefler shipper?
Wesley and the Traveler totally had a thing going on. Lefler was just a rebound thing.
Quote:
9. You think Captain Bateson was still in command of the Bozeman in First Contact, or was he swapping drinks with Scotty on Wrigley's Pleasure Planet?
He was actually transferred to Starfleet Intelligence not long after coming into the 24th century. I'll leave you to guess what his motto is.
Quote:
10. Do you disregard all mention of lasers and lithium crystals and Vulcanians and time-warp factors in the early episodes of TOS, or do you think that they really were in a transition period in the mid-2260s?
Actually, that's the true Star Trek for me. It's everything since that I've been having to adjust for.
Quote:
11. Those STTMP uniforms really did stink, didn't they?
Advances in self-cleaning fabrics in the 23rd century meant that washing clothes was no longer necessary, so that statement is entirely incorrect. In 2270 there was a major improvement in the technology that meant the tendency for such garments to tear very easily under certain conditions was entirely removed, and I think we can all agree that that was most certainly a good thing.
Quote:
12. You think that Commodore is still a valid rank in the 24th century?
Commodores are pretty much outdated by that point, so I definitely support Starfleet's decision to rename the rank to Acorn.
Quote:
13. Should Picard have retired to serve as Commandant of Starfleet Academy and given the Enterprise to Riker a long time ago? I think so.
Nonsense. Would Holmes have let Watson take over his detective schtick? It's just inconcievable.
Quote:
14. You think Riker's ticked off that Janeway made Admiral before he did? They are in the same class, you know.
I think the fact that he cultivated a beard way before Janeway ever did speaks volumes, although to be fair Janeway does wear it far better.
Quote:
15. You really think it would've been an "unheroic dead" if Soran had just shoot Kirk in the back, like it was originally shot?
Surely hitting Kirk as he was standing in profile to Soran would have made more sense? Bigger target, and all that.
Quote:
16. If there was one Trek game that Paramount decided to market in real life, which game? Taking out Fizzbin as insanely complicated, would you prefer Parrises Squares, Kalto, Anbo-jytsu, Tongo, Dabo, what?
Fizzbin? Too complicated? Mornington Crescent has been played for hundreds of years, you know, and compared to that Fizzbin is a doddle to learn, so frankly that's a very silly thing to say. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if you started trying to double-jump a Bloomsbury Special widdershins across the Circle Line on the second Tuesday of an even-numbered month, you crazy fool!
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  #20  
Old 10-19-2006, 11:55 PM
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Nate the Great Nate the Great is offline
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Hey, a Dilbert reference! Can't have enough of those.

A game more complicated than Fizzbin? Preposterous. As I saw it, every card had a different worth depending on the cards that are dealt before and after it, potentially leading to millions of combinations.

But Holmes wasn't grooming Watson to take over. I thought that a major purpose of having a first officer in the first place is to give them that last little bit of polish before they take commands of their own.
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