Most desired Sci-Fi Invention

[Derek]

Originally Posted by MaverickZer0

Water should freeze at zero,

Using that logic, all liquids should freeze at zero.

units should be in tens and hundreds.

Which is true of all base-10 measuring systems. And even taking you at your meaning, Fahrenheit isn't exactly like distances which have inches, feet, yards, and miles, with non-base-10 conversions between them. There's only one unit.

Water freezing at 32 or whatever doesn't make much sense.

Why is water special? Why does it make sense that ethanol freezes at -114.3 °C instead of -173.74 °F?

Then 0 is way below the freezing point and there's no point of having a zero if it's not doing anything special.

It's still arbitrary. There's no scientific reason why water should be chosen as the fluid. Why not hydrogen? Or nitrogen? Or mercury? Or gold? Those are elements, not compounds, so you think they might be given priority. Scientifically, it makes sense that absolute zero would be zero.

(Apparently I'm in an argumentative mood today. Ignore me.)

[Nate the Great]

As a Minnesotan I'm a little disquieted that anyone would think that "average winter days" exist, at least in anything approaching a measurable sense. Maybe if you're just talking about raw temperatures.

Water is the base unit because it's the building block of the universe. The number of lifeforms that don't depend on water as a critial element of life is either zero or so close to zero that you might as well round down. Plus it's abundant and we can measure it's properties in repeatable experiments easily.

I'd look up the appropriate Asimov essay and quote passages, but the book's in my attic at the moment. A shame, really.

[Nate the Great]

As a Minnesotan I'm a little disquieted that anyone would think that "average winter days" exist, at least in anything approaching a measurable sense. Maybe if you're just talking about raw temperatures.

Water is the base unit because it's the building block of the universe. The number of lifeforms that don't depend on water as a critial element of life is either zero or so close to zero that you might as well round down. Plus it's abundant and we can measure it's properties in repeatable experiments easily.

I'd look up the appropriate Asimov essay and quote passages, but the book's in my attic at the moment. A shame, really. Looking back at my previous story, I can already tell that there are holes in it.

[Derek]

Originally Posted by Infinite Improbability

Water is the base unit because it's the building block of the universe.

No, it isn't. It's a building block of Life, but not the Universe, and not everything.

Plus it's abundant and we can measure it's properties in repeatable experiments easily.

Many elements and compounds are abundant, and all are repeatable. Why water?

[Nate the Great]

Okay, but as it is Life that's calibrating the thermometers. I don't really see The Universe or Everything doing that stuff, do you?

I just noticed that the thread has a five-star rating. Even if that's the result of only one review, I appreciate the sentiment.

Not all experiments dealing with liquids and phase changes are equally easy to repeat. For example, for compounds with longer melting and boiling ranges, where do you cut off melting and boiling temperatures? The midpoint, the solid end of the scale, what? Early scientists had to deal with these questions.

Oh, and water is easy to get, easy to purify, easy to recover from a gaseous state, and so on. Think about it. Gold is more abundant than certain other metals (as I recall), it's just that a lot of it is locked up in low concentrations in water and other sources that require so much energy to extract that at this time it's de facto useless and out of reach.

[Gatac]

While I agree that there's countless vagaries in the Celsius scale (re: boiling point - what about the salt content of your water?), it is easier to reconstruct as it only requires a fairly common substance (water) going through two aggregate changes. If you want a scientifically solid scale, try Kelvin, which is fixed through absolute zero and the triple point of water.

To me, it's not a valid defense of Fahrenheit to say "Celsius is also whack!". Yes, it is, but Fahrenheit is the worse offender, and we should pick the lesser evil instead of wallowing in our temperature scale misery and sticking with what we have because it's all hopeless anyway, which is the vibe I'm getting here...

Gatac

[Nate the Great]

I don't see anyone defending Farenheit. I think that normal day-to-day temperatures are better represented in it, but that's another discussion.

After putting a little thought into it, I think the perfect temperature scale would be one that set zero at absolute zero, and had degree sizes such that the following temperatures were all nice round numbers:

1. Water freezes.
2. "Room Temperature." That's a discussion for another day, but there's lots of slosh allowed on this one.
3. Normal human body temperature.
4. Water boils.

It should be possible.

[Chancellor Valium]

Originally Posted by Derek

Using that logic, all liquids should freeze at zero.


Which is true of all base-10 measuring systems. And even taking you at your meaning, Fahrenheit isn't exactly like distances which have inches, feet, yards, and miles, with non-base-10 conversions between them. There's only one unit.


Why is water special? Why does it make sense that ethanol freezes at -114.3 °C instead of -173.74 °F?


It's still arbitrary. There's no scientific reason why water should be chosen as the fluid. Why not hydrogen? Or nitrogen? Or mercury? Or gold? Those are elements, not compounds, so you think they might be given priority. Scientifically, it makes sense that absolute zero would be zero.

(Apparently I'm in an argumentative mood today. Ignore me.)

Isn't the Kelvin scale a bit...big though, for everyday use?

[Nate the Great]

I've been working on a "Grant Scale." For those who read the fine print on my fivers, Grant is my "stage last name." Operating with the following goals in mind:

1. Zero Grant=Absolute Zero.
2. The freezing and boiling points of water should represent reasonable numbers divisible by ten (with a little slush allowed, after all the temperature of water alters these properties and scientists would have to look up these things on a temp/pressure chart anyway)

I've come up with the following properties in mind. It's really picking coordinates off of a y=1.366x chart where x is the melting temp and y is the boiling temp. 1.366 is the ratio of water boiling to freezing on the Kelvin scale. I'm rounding off the boiling point, as I imagine that pressure and other factors allow for a little more variability in that temp than freezing.

Kelvin: (273.15, 373.15)
Farenheit: (32, 212)
Grant 1: (140, 190)
Grant 2: (160, 220)
Grant 3: (300, 410)
Grant 4: (600, 820)

I think that Grant 1 is really nice. The normal human body temperature is about 159, or even 160 if you're generous. Room temperature (60 Farenheit) is about 148, sloshable to 150.

[Nate the Great]

Oh, just wanted to clarify that (begin deep radio commercial fine print voice) the Grant scale is total fanon, not serious at all, invented to solve a "problem," I don't take it too seriously, you shouldn't either, yada yada.

[Sa'ar Chasm]

I don't see anyone defending Farenheit. I think that normal day-to-day temperatures are better represented in it, but that's another discussion.

Says you. I can't make head or tail of your crazy Foreignheat numbers. Is 59 hot, cold or lukewarm?

[Nate the Great]

Foreignheat. You kill me. My coroner will be sending you his bill.

[Chancellor Valium]

Originally Posted by Infinite Improbability

Foreignheat. You kill me. My coroner will be sending you his bill.

IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH!

[JVTruman]

Originally Posted by Sa'ar Chasm

Says you. I can't make head or tail of your crazy Foreignheat numbers. Is 59 hot, cold or lukewarm?

It's somewhat cold; at least I think so. I take issue with the '60 Fahrenheit as room temperature' figure above, but I'm a native of Phoenix, Arizona, so that's probably why.

[mudshark]

For scientific purposes, "room temperature" is generally considered to be 25 C (or 77° F) if I remember rightly.