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  #101  
Old 08-27-2017, 01:37 AM
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A comment chain over at redshirtsalwaysdie.com

(ignore the speculation about the date, this is from three months ago when I suspect the 2255 date wasn't set in stone yet)

Some pertinent quotes:

"No this is not even remotely "the TOS era put through a modern day perspective." This is the TOS era put into the meat grinder."

"I don't know why these show runners can't get their facts straight - at least with Star Trek there's tons and tons of reference material and information online. Easy to fact-check. If they're just doing a reboot, they need to just own up to it. I really, really, reaaaaaallly hate it when those in charge of these projects treat the viewing public, let alone actual fans of the franchise, like we're idiots."

"To those who don't get it and are caught asking the insipid question, "Why is continuity important?", I will explain it to you in the simplest terms I can. Imagine that you like a certain period of history -- a lot. Say, the 18th century. Lets say you like it so much that you find historical re-enactments of events from that period interesting. Perhaps you're even a re-enactor yourself. You pay close attention to historical detail when making or buying parts of your outfit/uniform. Now, consider this. Because Star Trek is a legendarium that covers more than 300 years of "history" (okay, fictional history), and because it covers those years in so much detail -- the ships, the uniforms, the technology -- avid Star Trek fans are like historians in their attention to detail, and cosplayers are like re-enactors, likewise. You do not simply decide, "Well, we decided to change it, because reasons." Its like walking into Mordor."
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  #102  
Old 08-30-2017, 04:03 PM
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We finally get confirmation that Fuller was fired because he ignored deadlines and budgets in an effort to make a good show.
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  #103  
Old 09-01-2017, 01:39 PM
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Nine Reasons To Be Worried About Discovery
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Crow T. Robot: Oh, stop pretending there's a plot. Don't cheapen yourself further.
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  #104  
Old 09-03-2017, 11:01 PM
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Discovery is the solution to today's problems

Once again I had to delete a lot of snark. I'll just point at the rating again and question how the title of the article can be the truth when children shouldn't even be watching it.
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  #105  
Old 09-05-2017, 01:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nate the Great View Post
Your link is broken, because you have an extra "http://" in there.

Corrected.

Not that I am commenting any which way before the premiere of the show. I plan on watching then determining whether it is good or bad, rather than read the vitriol that is the Internet Hate Machine. (Yeah, I realize that usually only describes the 4chan Anonymous members, but if the shoe fits it usually was denounced as awful a year before its release.)
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  #106  
Old 09-05-2017, 05:26 PM
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The classic red/blue/yellow uniform colors may be introduced gradually.

The uniforms should be here NOW. Christopher Pike and the Enterprise are buzzing around in them, after all.

Or are you going to tell me that there's going to be a line of dialogue saying that only the Consitution-class ships of the line have those uniforms. Because I doubt it.

The studio states that plans for Season Two have not been made yet.

Ah, they still think they're going to get a second season. How adorable.

Hey, a guy can dream, can't he?
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Adam Savage: I reject your reality and substitute my own!

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  #107  
Old 09-07-2017, 01:22 AM
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Eight essential episodes to watch before Discovery

I had so much snark written out that I had to delete. Ugh.
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mudshark: I don't expect Nate to make sense, really -- it's just a bad idea.

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Adam Savage: I reject your reality and substitute my own!

Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.

Crow T. Robot: Oh, stop pretending there's a plot. Don't cheapen yourself further.
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  #108  
Old 09-09-2017, 09:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nate the Great View Post
The classic red/blue/yellow uniform colors may be introduced gradually.

The uniforms should be here NOW. Christopher Pike and the Enterprise are buzzing around in them, after all.
If they tell some good Trek stories then I'm willing to let them let the costume designers have some fun.
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  #109  
Old 09-10-2017, 03:20 AM
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Quote:
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If they tell some good Trek stories then I'm willing to let them let the costume designers have some fun.
Damn, there's no Like button.
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  #110  
Old 09-10-2017, 08:26 AM
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You're telling me that uniform colors are protected by the "established facts can be ignored for the sake of a good story" clause?
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mudshark: I don't expect Nate to make sense, really -- it's just a bad idea.

Sa'ar Chasm on the 5M.net forum: Sit back, relax, and revel in the insanity.

Adam Savage: I reject your reality and substitute my own!

Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.

Crow T. Robot: Oh, stop pretending there's a plot. Don't cheapen yourself further.
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  #111  
Old 09-10-2017, 02:00 PM
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The answer to "why should I watch Discovery" is apparently...

...it's the first new televised Star Trek in over a decade and the cast is diverse. That's it. Pretty weak arguments if you ask me.

A second site adds...

...there are impressive visuals, plenty of action, and interplanetary drama. I repeat my previous comment.
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mudshark: Nate's just being...Nate.
Zeke: It comes nateurally to him.

mudshark: I don't expect Nate to make sense, really -- it's just a bad idea.

Sa'ar Chasm on the 5M.net forum: Sit back, relax, and revel in the insanity.

Adam Savage: I reject your reality and substitute my own!

Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.

Crow T. Robot: Oh, stop pretending there's a plot. Don't cheapen yourself further.

Last edited by Nate the Great; 09-10-2017 at 05:00 PM.
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  #112  
Old 09-11-2017, 06:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nate the Great View Post
You're telling me that uniform colors are protected by the "established facts can be ignored for the sake of a good story" clause?
Here's the thing, dude: you have been bagging on Discovery practically since the announcement. Actually, I think you did the same day it was announced... well, within 24 hours of posting the thread, at least.

If story is good, then they could have the whole crew run around in Drive jumpsuits for all I care. Or naked. That is actually why I could forgive a lot of Enterprise, once they got some of the establishing stuff out of the way: it is not necessarily the Trek we know and love, and it looks a little different than the way we've been imagining all this time, but the story (more or less) was decent and I was entertained. The fact that they are wearing the wrong colors is something that we have had to endure since they began the movies - the Hell was up with the TMP pyjama uniforms, anyway? - and different series will mean it.

And it is not to say things like the character vs. character business in a post-human conflict society, or the Klingon's looks, or even a uniform design is not a little off-putting. Long-time Trek fans can look at this in the way that this isn't the way they exactly pictured it and pick it apart and show people that it is the worst thing ever... or they can look on Discovery as a new direction in a universe that already hasn't been consistent with itself, accept that there are always going to be changes as time goes on, and just enjoy the ride as long as it lasts.





I am sorry, I got a little rant-y there. It gets to me that the majority of comments here on Discovery been negative, when no one has any idea what the finished product looks like. Star Trek, to me, has always been about optimism for the future, and if I even get a glimmer of that out of Discovery with a good story, I will take it.
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  #113  
Old 09-11-2017, 10:34 AM
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Star Trek, to me, has always been about optimism for the future, and if I even get a glimmer of that out of Discovery with a good story, I will take it.
This, exactly this. It's Star Trek. I'm going to watch it. Are people seriously bitching about the uniforms? It's fucking Star Trek with a non-white non-male lead, opening with an Asian female captain (I know she's not the captain of the Discovery), with a character in an open, stable, non-straight relationship.

It's Star Trek. Tell good stories, be optimistic, show IDIC, and I'm there. The rest is noise. Gatekeepers and universe purists can suck warp plasma.
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  #114  
Old 09-11-2017, 11:53 AM
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It's clear that I need a time out from this topic. The premiere is in less than two weeks, I'll see how I feel after the reviews from people not on CBS's payroll turn out.

I'll see you elsewhere in the forum. Hopefully the TOS 50th and TNG 30th threads will be more fun than this.
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  #115  
Old 09-11-2017, 07:37 PM
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I agree that you can use a break, but I also agree with a lot of your concerns (as does Wowbagger, who I talk to often on FB). Optimism is important, no question. One CAN hope. But there are just so many bad signs.

There's a song in Fiddler on the Roof with this bit:

Quote:
God would like us to be joyful even when our hearts lie panting on the floor...
How much more can we be joyful when there's really something to be joyful for?
The contrapositive is just as true. The worse things look, the harder optimism gets.

On a different note, can you guys believe it's less than two weeks now? After all the delays and chaos, I had gotten used to thinking of ST:D as a distant-future thing. I had the same feeling when Batman v Superman finally really happened.
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  #116  
Old 09-14-2017, 06:36 PM
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Quote:
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It's clear that I need a time out from this topic. The premiere is in less than two weeks, I'll see how I feel after the reviews from people not on CBS's payroll turn out.
You'll have to wait until release day, then, because CBS just imposed a review embargo! Yayyyy! http://io9.gizmodo.com/cbs-wont-allo...efo-1809073782

I want this so desperately to be good, and I agree with everything F_G said about good stories being able to make up for many sins against continuity... but everything I have seen about Discovery (except the decent theme song) says to me that it's not going to be good. The embargo is a damning exclamation point on all that.

I haven't felt this way since early September 2001, back before ENTERPRISE convinced me it would actually be Star Trek and not some horrible knockoff.

(Of course, that one ended well, and I'm pinning my cautious, perhaps foolish hopes on that.)
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  #117  
Old 09-15-2017, 02:09 AM
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See, that's what I mean about unforced errors. The review embargo doesn't prove anything -- but it was the last bad sign they had time to give us before launch, and boy, they jumped at the chance!
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  #118  
Old 09-15-2017, 06:49 AM
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Quote:
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The premiere is in less than two weeks, I'll see how I feel after the reviews from people not on CBS's payroll turn out.
I promise I'm not on the CBS payroll. Not that I wouldn't mind that, mind you... but I can also be critical of them. Ask me my opinions about cancelling Two Broke Girls, or making a Big Bang Theory spinoff.

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The worse things look, the harder optimism gets.
I concede this. I still don't worry about it, though, until after premiere.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wowbagger View Post
You'll have to wait until release day, then, because CBS just imposed a review embargo! Yayyyy! http://io9.gizmodo.com/cbs-wont-allo...efo-1809073782
Seriously, CBS, stop trying our patience as a collective and just let someone, anyone, tell us it's good, bad, or in between.
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  #119  
Old 09-15-2017, 07:00 PM
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Seriously, CBS, stop trying our patience as a collective and just let someone, anyone, tell us it's good, bad, or in between.
I would be so, so fine with in-between right now. Trek always improves, after all! (Well, except TOS.)

((And I know Zeke thinks early VOY is better than late VOY. (((Incorrectly.)))))
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  #120  
Old 09-20-2017, 11:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nate the Great View Post
You're telling me that uniform colors are protected by the "established facts can be ignored for the sake of a good story" clause?
I've had to put up with the existence of a single-nacelle Federation starship, I can put up with a continuity deviation that actually looks decent.

As long as they don't introduce Kirk's crew or other crews we've already seen and show them in the wrong uniforms, I don't mind. Enterprise already had blue uniforms, we're going to see a crew in between that fashion and TOS's. I'm okay with that. If these were some other color, it would be weirder.

I agree with you and others that there is a lot of room for skepticism and pessimism about this series, but I'm going to give it a chance where it deserves a chance and not risk throwing a baby out with the bathwater.

Still not signing up for All Access (I might come home and find that KJ has, but that's her decision), but I'm also not going to dig a grave before the thing even launches.
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