New thread!

[MaverickZer0]

whatever that pronunciation guide gobbledegook is that you find in dictionaries

That's not a language. It's the IPA (International Phonetic Alphabet), which is a really dumb name since there's about five of them. It also doesn't help anyone but trained linguists and people who actually read the pronunciation guides at the front of the dictionary. [/linguistics nerd]

ANYWAY.

1. Latin: Same reason as everyone else, plus it sounds cool.
2. Japanese: I like the language. What can I say?
3. Welsh: Because I have heredity there, and feel really guilty about knowing none. Despite it being a horrible language, in my opinion.
4. Russian: I have an interest in Cyrillic languages, too.
5. Ancient: Yes, from Stargate...leave me alone, I like it.

[Nate the Great]

Yeah, but I just get bugged when I see a pronounciation guide that is ostensibly for the average person, when there's no such thing as an average person that can decipher it.

[Katy Jane]

I can't decipher those pronunciations either. <_<

[NAHTMMM]

Originally Posted by MaverickZer0

people who actually read the pronunciation guides at the front of the dictionary

*waves hand* If I care enough about getting the pronunciation right, sure I'll go look at what the characters are supposed to mean.

[Nate the Great]

I am seriously not joking. Pronounciation guides are meaningless to include in mass consumption dictionaries if the common man can't read them.

Looking up an appropriate word...

# IPA: /pɹəˌnʌnsiˈeɪʃən/, SAMPA: /pr@%nVnsi"eIS@n/

Is that supposed to mean anything to me? Why is "prun-ounce-e-hay-shun" so taboo and impossible to use?

[Zeke]

I'm mostly with Nate on this one, actually. Dictionaries are one thing -- as long as the pronunciation chart is right at the start (preferably the inside cover), I don't mind the funny symbols, since they're more precise. But the way Wikipedia does it has been bugging me for some time. Not only do most articles not have pronunciation guides, even for foreign names, but the ones that do use IPA and usually don't link to the chart! How hard would it be to do that? The IPA symbols are not remotely intuitive to an English-speaker; using them without linking to their meanings is worse than useless.

When I want to convey a pronunciation to someone quickly, I use Nate's method. If I say that the mathematician Cauchy often gets his name mispronounced -- that people say "COE-shee" when they should say "coe-SHEE" (he was French) -- you know right away what I mean. But I understand why a dictionary would want to be more formal.

(Btw, Cauchy is reputedly the mathematician whose name is on the most things, so this is a real problem.)

[NAHTMMM]

Oh, ew. I was thinking in terms of using actual alphabetic symbols with fiddly bits and schwas. (I remembered that word just in time to type it. Yay me.)

[MaverickZer0]

I agree. I've had three of the (main) five phonetic alphabets hammered into my head by coursework, but 99% of the people who look at those guides haven't. It's useless, since not enough people know it. It's nice to have a guide like that, but it just isn't taught widely enough for the usage it gets.

IF they could agree on one international standard and agree to teach it widely, then it would be a wonderful thing. But they haven't, so it isn't.

[catalina_marina]

Originally Posted by Nate the Great

Why is "prun-ounce-e-hay-shun" so taboo and impossible to use?

Because that would defeat the international part. It's fine when you're trying to tell an English-speaking person how to pronounce it, but it's pretty useless in, say, an English - Italian dictionary (meant for Italians), as they'd have no idea how the English pronunciation rules work. After all, that's why they're looking it up. Of course, when telling a Dutchie how to pronounce this (I don't know how Italian brains work), you could tell him "prun-auns-i-hee-sjun" but what if you don't know who is reading it?
Now don't get me wrong, I'm not defending IPA or any of those others, but if you want international, it's the closest thing we've got. I agree with Maverick though, that we should pick one and stick with it.

Practically though, I know just how that would turn out. As we have too many choices, every great country would want the right to pick one for itself, and then we, in the EU, are taught one, and told that we should learn another as well, as it's used in the US. (Of course, Canada would follow the US, as would most of Asia, but after a while they switch to the Euro - I mean the European system, since they think the US isn't so stable anymore. Meanwhile, Africa doesn't care.) It's happened before, it will happen again.

[Sa'ar Chasm]

My, you've gotten cynical.

Also, is it too late to change Klingon to Elven? I have more in common with pansy archers than burly warriors.