What's a long good DS game?

[Derek]

I'm going to be going on a business trip to San Francisco soon, which means that I've got a 10-hour flight there and back. Obviously, I'll be looking for ways to kill time on the long flight, and I figure a new DS game would probably hit the spot. So what I'm looking for is a game that you can get at least 20 hours of solid more-or-less continuous entertainment out of. Any of you DS owners out there know of any good ones?

The games I'm currently considering are "Mario & Luigi Partners In Time," "Castlevania Dawn of Sorrow," and "Yoshi's Island DS." Each of those games look like they're rated highly and look like they take a while to play. Obviously they're all kind of different from each other. I've never played any of Castlevania, and I've only played the main Mario games so I'm not sure how much I'm going to like any of those games listed. Any of you DS owners out there played these game and have any comments on them?

Sorry this post isn't funny. The next one will be, I'm just sure of it.

[ijdgaf]

Honestly, I don't own any of those three. But I get the impression you can't go wrong with Castlevania.

From my collection, my recommendation would be Kirby: Canvas Curse. It's a title not many DS owners have played, which is a shame because it was the first really good proof-of-concept for the system. Whole game is controlled with the stylus. And it works, really really well. It's a fairly long adventure, with a surprising amount of challenge to it. Definitely worth looking into.

[Nate the Great]

Well, I've never played any DS games, so I can't speak to the point. I could recommend some GBA games, but that's another request.

[Derek]

Thanks for the reply, IJD. I actually own Canvas Curse, so that wouldn't work for me. Also, I've found that I can only play that for, maybe, an hour at most before I'm ready to switch to another game. Super Mario 64 DS, on the other hand, I was able to play continuously for a very long time.

Nate, I'd be open to a good GBA game if you have one that meets the criteria since the DS will play it. I only have Minish Cap and the Super Mario World GBA games currently.

[Nate the Great]

Yeah, but you didn't ask for GBA games, did you? :)

Well, the sad part is, the only out-and-out GBA games I have are:

Mario Advance 4: SMB3. This is mandatory for anyone with a GBA-compatible. I think we can get agreement on this.
A series of Yu-gi-oh games. You probably aren't interested in those.

The rest of my Gameboy Games were either original (Tetris and Wheel of Fortune) or Pokemon.

[ijdgaf]

How about Metroid Zero Mission? It's a great way to get into the franchise if you're not already.

Also, maybe it would help if you gave a list of the DS games you already own.

[Derek]

Let's see:

Mario Kart DS
Brain Age
Clubhouse Games
Super Mario 64 DS
New Super Mario Bros
Age of Empires
Kirby Canvas Curse
Tetris DS

And the GBA games I have are listed in my previous post.

[Nate the Great]

You don't have Nintendogs yet? :)

That was sarcasm, by the way. I don't think I'd enjoy it either. It's just that I keep reading how big of a deal that game is.

[ijdgaf]

The only long games I have that you don't are Metroid Prime Hunters, Viewtiful Joe Double Trouble, and StarFox Command.

Actually, I had forgotten to mention the latter earlier. StarFox works great on the touchscreen. It's really an underrated title.

[Nate the Great]

Okay, here's something I've been wondering about Viewtiful Joe. What's the difference between Mach Speed and Slow? After all, one is speeding Joe up and the other is slowing everything else down, right? So in the end, isn't it just semantics? A change in the point of reference?

[ijdgaf]

Couldn't tell you. I've barely played any of Viewtiful Joe. On either Cube or DS.

My Fiancee has it though. So I'll get into it eventually.

[Burt]

Funny enough I've been looking for a new DS game. I've been thinking about that Hotel Room 13? Or what ever it was called. It looks good and different and long. It has been said to be a bit like Max Payne....which isn't good in my book, as I hated that game.
Anyone got it?
And on the Nintendo side of things....
-Heatseeker. Anyone played it? Any good?
-Blazing Squadron ...better or worse?
Many thanks!

[Zeke]

Unfortunately, the DS games I've enjoyed the most don't make good introductions to their respective series. Metroid Prime Hunters would be a terrible first Metroid game. Mega Man Battle Network 5 DS is, naturally, fifth in its series. Mega Man ZX would be a good choice -- you wouldn't get as much out of it as we Mega Man diehards do, but it's first in its own series at least. You should also consider Children of Mana, a highly underrated game.

As for GBA games, see my Castlevania comments below; another excellent buy is Final Fantasy: Dawn of Souls. I second IJD's nomination of Metroid Zero Mission (Fusion is great too, but ZM is a better first Metroid game). And the Mega Man Battle Network and Mega Man Zero series are definitely worth getting into, it's just better to play them in order, so grab the earlier games if you can find them.

But I get the impression you can't go wrong with Castlevania.

Very true -- except the one Derek's considering. Dawn of Sorrow is a direct sequel to Aria of Sorrow for GBA, and if you play it first, you spoil a huge plot twist for yourself. It's a great game, but it shouldn't be played before Aria.

My advice for someone who wants to get into Castlevania... well, okay. My advice for someone who wants to get into Castlevania without emulation would be to track down the Castlevania Double Pack for GBA. There were three GBA Castlevania games, all awesome: Circle of the Moon (one of the very first GBA games, and the one that suffered most from the lack of a backlight), Harmony of Dissonance, and Aria of Sorrow. The latter two quickly grew hard to find, so Konami rereleased them last year as a Double Pack. If you can find it, it's the best value you'll ever get for one GBA cart. Circle is an amazing game too, and a good intro to the series (it was mine).

You might also consider the latest entry, Portrait of Ruin. It's a brilliant game. Not ideal as an introduction, but it worked okay for Tarn-Vedra, who got it on my advice. It's incredibly customizable, with the best-executed two-character system I've ever seen, and five extra playable characters to unlock. And Charlotte's adorable.

[Hejira]

Even with a walkthrough telling you every step to take, Phoenix Wright takes days to play. And, it's a damn fine game.

[Derek]

Metroid Prime Hunters would be a terrible first Metroid game.
I downloaded the demo of it and wasn't really grabbed by it. Visually impressive, yes. But FPS aren't my cup of tea.

Mega Man ZX would be a good choice -- you wouldn't get as much out of it as we Mega Man diehards do, but it's first in its own series at least. You should also consider Children of Mana, a highly underrated game.
Heard good things about CoM, but nothing enough to persuade me.

Very true -- except the one Derek's considering. Dawn of Sorrow is a direct sequel to Aria of Sorrow for GBA, and if you play it first, you spoil a huge plot twist for yourself. It's a great game, but it shouldn't be played before Aria.
I realized I said Dawn of Sorrow when I meant to say Portrait of Ruin. Not that I really have a favorite of the two, but PoR came out more recently so I figured I might go for that one of the two. The whole non-sequel thing you mention also seems to be a vote for PoR.

Actually, Castlevania: PoR is probably going to be my purchase.

Hejira, Pheonix Wright looks like it could be fun (and comments I've seen seem to agree that it is), but I don't think I'm going to go for that now. It's on my wishlist though.

Burt, Hotel Dusk Rm 215 is also on my wishlist, though I've heard a little ambivalence towards it from others. I downloaded the playable demo, and thought it interesting. I could definitely see that killing a lot of time.

[MaverickZer0]

The whole Mana series that I've played has been rather good. I should toss Fire Emblem in there while I'm at it. Just because it's a series doesn't mean the games are really related. They stand alone quite well.

I've heard good things about both ZX and Shooting Star or whatever they're calling the Battle Network spinoff in English. I'd say better things about ZX because my opinion of that series isn't as tainted by the 'but they ended the old old one too soon!' as it is with the other.

Castlevania's another good choice if you somehow haven't played any of those yet. Castlevania as a series is excellent.

[Nate the Great]

I don't suppose I could convince you to get an original Gameboy and Tetris? I've whiled away many a happy hour on that game.

[Hejira]

Tetris DS plz.

[ijdgaf]

Also, uh... there's little-to-no reason anymore to buy an original Game Boy thanks to backwards compatability. Unless you're super fond of pea green monochrome.

[Nate the Great]

Well, besides nostalgia?

I have the original GBA and see no reason to change. I'm actually one of the few who thinks that the SP isn't so hot. No headphone jack, hands too cramped, eats batteries like nobodies business, and on and on. I actually enjoy using an archaic third-party external battery/handgrip that surrounds the entire thing to make it even BIGGER.

[Zeke]

As IJD can attest, I agree with you on that one. The GBA's layout was innovative; the SP was a step backwards from that (although the fold-over was a good idea). The Micro would be the perfect compromise if it could play original GB games. I still adore mine, but it really annoys me that I can't play older games on it. I don't have an SP, so that leaves me no backlit option for those games.

[Nate the Great]

Sad to say, I never really considered backlighting the end-all-and-be-all key criteria for evaluating a system. Stuff like gameplay and battery life had higher priorities. After all, you can always add an external light, but if the ergonomics stink, there really isn't a way to fix that.

[PointyHairedJedi]

They have these things called 'books' now, though they're quite new - they've only been around for the last two-and-a-half-thousand years or so. Still, whenever I take a long trip I make sure to take at least two with me, though evidently I am something of an early adopter of the technology in this regard.

[Hejira]

Hey, you know what the perfect compromise between a book and a game is? *points to 14th post*

I have an SP. One of those old ones that's frontlit. Also, a DS Phat. I intend to get a DS Lite around the time I get Pokémon Diamond and Pearl, because I want to trade 'em with myself and my mum would never let me stick a Pokémon game into her DS.

Well, she probably would after some weaseling, but then I'd be left with no excuse to spend more money for shiny shiny.

[ijdgaf]

PHJ, I've got an English major (specifically a creative writing major). I'm about 3/4 finished writing my first novel. I intend to write many more. You won't find many people these days who read as much, or who lament the declining interest people have in books as often as I do.

That said (and I'm really not aiming this at you), I really get pissed when intelligent people get grumpy about video games and their popularity. I love books. I love movies. I love music. And I love video games. And I feel very strongly that all can exist in the same intellectual sphere without infringing upon eachother's relative importance. It's been long enough that our society has accepted film as an artform and placed the cultural significance of movies at the same level as poems and novels in the past. But video games are a newer art (yes, I said art), and they've yet to fully mature in this respect. Still, it's quite an interesting journey and I'm enjoying the maturation the video game industry is going through. Sooner or later it'll be on the same level and the older folks will be lamenting some newer, hipper upstart. Mark my words.

Until then, any critical belittling of video games, or any assertion or implication that books are inherently superior just strikes me as cultural snobbery.

Ahem. Sorry. Rant over.

[Derek]

And for that matter, I plan to bring along books as well. This flight is the first flight I'm going to be taking since buying a DS, and before that I always brought a few books with me. I don't see why that should change.

Normally on flights I take along books which I've already read and which are easy reads so the constant interruptions and general fatigue I get from long flights don't make the reading a chore. A videogame would also provide a useful distraction without being too taxing. Even outside flying there have been many times when I've found myself too asleep to properly pay attention to a book, but still awake enough to play a videogame. And videogames are normally engrossing enough that I can ignore my sleepiness for awhile. Certainly a useful benefit on a long flight.

By the way, my defense does not mean I didn't enjoy your satire, PHJ.

[Nate the Great]

DS Phat. :)

[Burt]

But we are all clear that the DS rules? I mean it has Two screens for crying out loud! Two Screens! And Sonic and Mario, on the same system! Plus with a wireless network and the right hardware....it can go online! I was online the other day..... on the toilet!

Hello?

Hello?

Where did everyone go?

[Nate the Great]

No, we are not clear, Burt. And you don't want me to explain, because the rest of the forum will mob you if you ask. :)

[ijdgaf]

Nate, you almost had me with the no backwards compatability argument before. It's sorta weak, but it's about the only legitimate gripe I can think of with the system.

The fact that you already own a GBA completely obliterates that complaint. So now... I'm really at a loss.

But whatever. Truthfully, the only real loss is yours.

The DS is the finest Nintendo system in years.

[Nate the Great]

Gasp! Did you just diss the Revolution? ;)

[Hejira]

LET US NOT START THAT ARGUMENT UP AGAIN.

Having said that, I'm still slightly bitter that the DS doesn't support GB/C games. I'd suggest an add-on that goes into the GBA slot that contains the older processor and whatnot, but why should the Phat get the Lite's overbite?

[ijdgaf]

Gasp! Did you just diss the Revolution? ;)

No. I just dissed the Wii.

[Nate the Great]

I added the winking emoticon specifically to avoid mass panic.

[Hejira]

No. I just dissed the Wii.

And I just wasted my caps lock for nothing. *weep*

[Nate the Great]

There, there. I'm sure you'll get plenty of chances to do other bits of shouting.

Obscure reference! Have at it!

[ijdgaf]

Hey, bottom line is the DS has about a gajillion awesome games worth playing on it. The Wii has threeish. That will certainly change in time, but for now the DS wins simply because it is far more established.

[PointyHairedJedi]

PHJ, I've got an English major (specifically a creative writing major). I'm about 3/4 finished writing my first novel. I intend to write many more.
Won't publishing a book printed entirely on blocks of cedar prove rather expensive?

[Nate the Great]

But does an "amazing" library negate the fact that backwards compatibility was the obvious way to go, and they chose to not go that way?

Could somebody explain the cedar block thing?

[PointyHairedJedi]

Nobody knows why cedar. It just is.

[ijdgaf]

The original design of the DS had no backward compatability. It has GBA compatability out of hardware convenience. To give it anything more would drive up hardware prices (you'd need a GBC chip crammed in there), and the cost would be deferred to the consumer.

As an owner of every incarnation of the Game Boy since the original, I much prefer their final decision on the matter. I don't see how anybody with a GBA would feel otherwise.

[Nate the Great]

And what's wrong with the cost being deferred to the customer? Z80s can't be THAT expensive. Besides, people are still buying PS3s at twice the cost of a Revolution. Would even fifty bucks (which I doubt) for the additional Z80 processor dissuade that many people? Plus, I'm a firm believer that

(Number of additional units that would be sold because of full backwards compatibility)>(number of units that wouldn't be sold because of a marginal price increase)

[Hejira]

*I* would have been dissuaded. I'm not exactly in the best of financial situations AND I have an SP, which already takes care of my backwards-compatibility needs (which is...Pokémon Silver and....that's it.)

New adopters of the DS would, AFAICS, not be terribly interested in using something with a touch screen, microphone, two screens, and a nice greeting chime that changes on your birthday to play monochrome Tetris.

[Nate the Great]

Silver? I got Crystal, and that's awesome...

Yeah, but if there was a Gameboy DS, you'd have traded in all of that SP stuff, right?

But we play monocrome Gameboy Classic games on GBA all the time. What's the diff?

AFIACS?

[Hejira]

The second hand shop didn't have Crystal.

No, for a Gameboy DS would have allowed a link cable deal, and I wouldn't have to power up my Gamecube whenever trading Pokés. Or I'd hand down the SP to my mum. Or I'd just put it in a box, because I don't like throwing out anything.

I don't play monochrome Gameboy Classic games on my GBA because I only just recently got into teh consoles. (It was around the time I started getting my own money.) My point is, noobs tend not to look at, say, Metroid II and Metroid Zero Mission side-by-side and decide to go to SR-388.

As Far As I Can See, derived from As Far As I Know.

[Nate the Great]

Well, Crystal is awesome. I know I already said that, but it bears repeating.

Well, I can't respect people who equate old to bad or primitive to bad. I enjoy the glory games of Apogee: Keen, Duke, Cosmo. I enjoy Number Munchers. Heck, the original Tetris! For that matter, I have a port of the original Mario Brothers. One screen, turtles and crabs and icebergs popping out of pipes, no story whatsoever, just play until you're out of lives.

This compatability thing leads into another pet peeve of mine. This whole XP-can't-do-DOS thing. Why hasn't Microsoft built in some form of DOSBox into all of their operating systems by now? Do they honestly think that no one knows how to use DOS anymore?

[Hejira]

I don't equate old or primitive to bad, but that doesn't mean the new stuff is worse than the old, either. If you're introduced to something new, though, you'd think one would want to push the limits of what the new shiny shiny can do.

And I wholeheartedly agree that the XP/DOS compatibility thing is a tragedy...but AFAIK, Vista doesn't support 16-bit software AT ALL. Reason #9326540 not to upgrade.

[MaverickZer0]

I have Silver and Crystal. And Gold. And yeah, Crystal is awesome.

I don't have anything newer than a GBA/Gamecube around, but I rather like backwards compatibility. That's why I keep the old systems. I have one of the few NESes that you don't have to work black magic to run. It seems a waste to me to put an old game on a new system with no changes, by the act of simply changing the cartridge. So just make it backwards compatible and then we can play our old classic games whatever way we want.

Some of us LIKE playing Tetris DS on a green/grey screen with no back lighting! With the little beeps and stuff.

Vista = Windows XP 98 : We were lying when we said it was better than the last one.

[Nate the Great]

Oooh, a cool thought struck me. If they had made Gameboy DS it'd be able to connect to Revolution, right? So the DS could be the Revolution Gameboy Player! Eventually running every Nintendo game ever through one console!

[Hejira]

Except for Game and Watch and Virtual Boy.

EDIT: And the hanafuda cards. And the love hotels...

[Nate the Great]

Who's to say you COULDN'T release Game and Watch on Virtual Console? It'd only be 100 Wii Points or so, but still...

Maybe I should have specified "console game." Game and Watch is closer to an arcade than a "console," in that it's dedicated to one game. Would we want all of those Pokemon Tomagotchis on Virtual console?

Virtual Boy...well, you could release them on Virtual Console, I suppose, and sell 3D glasses.

[PointyHairedJedi]

I've got one of those around somewhere. Little people jump out of a buring building, and then fall onto the pavement and die. There are also some firemen, but mostly I make them stand and watch, knowing that they'll be emotionally scarred for the rest of their tiny electronic lives, eventually turning to alcohol and entering a downward spiral that eventually culminates in their own deaths, shiverring under a bridge somewhere with a bottle of kerosene clamped in their frozen hands.

I can really see why it was so popular. :)

[Nate the Great]

Reminds me of this OLD DOS game. I mean, code written on bear skin. The name eludes me, but basically a guy jumps off a building over and over. You move the paramedics holding the trampoline back and forth to make sure the guy bounces to safety. It even had a control to control the violence level. Set it to G rating and if the guy missed the trampoline he landed on the ground and those little imaginary birds would spin over his head. Set it to PG and he'd splat into a little virtual bloody mess.