Betty or Veronica?

[Nate the Great]

A simple thread, and a simple poll. It all came from another TVTropes binge. Cheryl Blossom and any other Archie crushes don't count.

In addition, we can discuss which we'd prefer in real life. I'm a Betty guy all the way.

[Nate the Great]

Ooh, a Veronica fan!

[AKAArzosah]

Why is there no 'Aaagh! Make it stop!' option?

Who the hell is Cheryl Blossom? The very name makes me feel slightly ill.

[Nate the Great]

Cheryl Blossom (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheryl_Blossom)

Think of her as being a failed atempt at a uber-amalgam of Betty and Veronica. She's uberbeautiful (at least according to Archie's standards), richer than Veronica, and...and...I don't get it either. Putting aside the fact as to whether such a girl would be a good match for Archie, WHY is she attracted to a nobody like him, and HOW could he fit into her life? I include her just because she is an official contender for Archie's heart.

[PointyHairedJedi]

...I must admit defeat. What, pray tell, is a Veronica or a Betty?

[Nate the Great]

Well, specifically Betty and Veronica are the two main love interests of classic everydude Archie. In general, it's a poll to ask which of the two "extremes" of love interests you prefer. "Betty" is the more traditional, dependable one, and "Veronica" is the more extreme, nonconventional one. Here are some Trek analogues to help you:

Archie Betty Veronica
Troi Riker Worf
Leeta Rom Bashir
Picard Crusher Vash
Archer T'Pol Trip

[PointyHairedJedi]

Ah.



What's an Archie?

[Chancellor Valium]

...This is a USAns thing, right?

[Nate the Great]

Oh, for Zarquon's sake, it's Archie! There have been umpteen Archie comic books over DECADES! Don't tell me that Canada doesn't have xerox joke comics, where they just recycle the gags every few years, changing the joker and the jokee every once in awhile. Look it up on Wikipedia.

[AKAArzosah]

I've heard of Archie but never read it or even seen it published.

[catalina_marina]

Oh. I figured Archie came from Archer. Silly me.

[Chancellor Valium]

Erm, neither Pointy nor I live in Canada...

[Nate the Great]

I wash my hands of this whole thing. If you don't understand the options, don't participate. Start your own poll. We can always use more discussion in this forum.

[mudshark]

Erm, neither Pointy nor I live in Canada...
Ehm, Nate's a bit... vague on geography. See, there's Minnesota, and then there are... well, he's heard there are some other states, so... then, he's heard there are other countries, too, and... Canada... well, he's been told about Canada, but he sorta thinks it isn't one of the other states, so... everybody that doesn't live in America -- which is really Minnesota (oh, and some other states, see?) -- well, they must be in Canada, right? http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g223/mudshark58/smilies/laugh-1.gif

QOD... er, Kew Gardens... wait... the queue forms here?


Actually, I don't think he's even all that clear on the parts of Minnesota that aren't Minneapolis. Never mind.

[NAHTMMM]

As for me, I've heard rumors of other continents, but they nearly always start and end with "A" so I figure people are just confused on how to pronounce "America".

[NAHTMMM]

Anyway, in answer to the original question: I've never paid attention to the Archie comics myself, but based on the personalities I'd have to go with Betty in terms of settling down with someone.

Veronica sounds more like the sort who can enliven a dull class. :lol:

[catalina_marina]

I wash my hands of this whole thing. If you don't understand the options, don't participate. Start your own poll. We can always use more discussion in this forum.

Fair enough. Just for reasons of funniness though, you should have put in an option saying "What?" or something. :P

[Nate the Great]

There are a lot of Canucks among the forumgoers. Sue a guy for taking a mental shortcut. And I'd prefer it if you don't insult my geography skills. I did beat out my entire school to a Geography Bee crown once upon a time.

As for a "What?" option, it hadn't occured to me. I sort of assumed that people who didn't understand the choices would simply move on to other threads.

[AKAArzosah]

See when I first read it I assumed it was a 'Veronica Mars' versus 'Ugly Betty' versus 'Some other person I never heard of' thing. Hence the 'Aargh, make it stop' comment.

The name 'Cheryl Blossom' is still making me slightly nauseous.

Nate! Educate me! Direct me to an Archie website or summat.

[PointyHairedJedi]

As for a "What?" option, it hadn't occured to me. I sort of assumed that people who didn't understand the choices would simply move on to other threads.
And you've been a member here for how long? :p

[Nate the Great]

Well, THIS account is three and a half years old. Probably another year back for my first account. Wow, things were different back then. Still Five-Minute Voyager, the exosites were still active and all that.

http://archieuniverse.50megs.com/ArchieLinks.html

More Archie links than you know what to do with.

[Chancellor Valium]

Ehm, Nate's a bit... vague on geography. See, there's Minnesota, and then there are... well, he's heard there are some other states, so... then, he's heard there are other countries, too, and... Canada... well, he's been told about Canada, but he sorta thinks it isn't one of the other states, so... everybody that doesn't live in America -- which is really Minnesota (oh, and some other states, see?) -- well, they must be in Canada, right? http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g223/mudshark58/smilies/laugh-1.gif

QOD... er, Kew Gardens... wait... the queue forms here?


Actually, I don't think he's even all that clear on the parts of Minnesota that aren't Minneapolis. Never mind.


He should meet my sister.

She thought Albania was an island.

[Nate the Great]

Seriously, I'm not joking. You can bash me on just about any other topic, but geography is taboo. Live with it, move on. Please.

[mudshark]

He should meet my sister.

She thought Albania was an island.
In more than one way, she was right.

[Chancellor Valium]

No, Albania isn't an island, entire of itself. Anything that diminishes it diminishes this attempt at a takeoff...

:p

[catalina_marina]

I seem to have memorized the location of all US states a few weeks ago. I still don't actually know why... But anyway, I know them better than the European countries. Of course, those changed a number of times since last I had to learn them for school ten years ago... And then there are all the mini-countries which are really annoying.

[mudshark]

I seem to have memorized the location of all US states a few weeks ago. I still don't actually know why...
No idea even what might have prompted you to undertake such an exercise?
And then there are all the mini-countries which are really annoying.
Quick! Where is San Marino located?

[Nate the Great]

Oh yeah. My most current atlas that isn't actually inside a textbook is still Cold War. East and West Germany, Iron Curtain and all that.

[catalina_marina]

Quick! Where is San Marino located?

Eh, between France and Spain?

*checks*

Nope, that would be Andorra. See?

Oh, the one I remember was all nice and new... Back then. Germany was one country again, Tsjechoslowakije (you can translate that for yourself) was broken up, Yugoslavia had fallen apart, and Russia wasn't completely whole anymore either. But I learned (and so it said in the Atlas too) that the capital of Yugoslavia, or small-Yugoslavia, as my teacher liked to call it, was Belgrado. Now, apparantly, that country doesn't exist anymore either.

[Nate the Great]

Chandler Bing: Why do they call it a check? Why not a Slovakian?

[PointyHairedJedi]

No idea even what might have prompted you to undertake such an exercise?
I wondered that my own self. I suspect though that it's so she has a good idea where to send her armies first...

[mudshark]

Oh, the one I remember was all nice and new... Back then. Germany was one country again, Tsjechoslowakije (you can translate that for yourself) was broken up, Yugoslavia had fallen apart, and Russia wasn't completely whole anymore either. But I learned (and so it said in the Atlas too) that the capital of Yugoslavia, or small-Yugoslavia, as my teacher liked to call it, was Belgrado. Now, apparantly, that country doesn't exist anymore either.
Okay, yeah -- there was a lot going on in a short stretch of time, there.

Still, that sort of thing is always going on, and Yugoslavia was a sort of artificial construct anyway, cobbled together by the Allies at the end of WWI to show the (soon-to-be out-of-business) Austro-Hungarian Empire who was in charge. Czechoslovakia, as a country, also dated from the same time. In fact, you only have to go back 50 years or so before that to see Germany and Italy being assembled out of what had previously only been separate smaller bits.

Borders are nice, as ideas; so are country names; they look kinda cool on maps and all that, but historically, they tend not to have much in the way of permanence. Just in my lifetime, the maps of places like Africa and Southeast Asia have been overhauled pretty dramatically, and the Middle East and South Asia only a few years before that.

I wondered that my own self. I suspect though that it's so she has a good idea where to send her armies first...
Okay, that would work. Should have thought of it myself.

[catalina_marina]

Just in your lifetime, hm? :P

The name Germany doesn't make much sense anyway. Historically speaking, we're all Germans. People who think up those words should start looking at what countries call themselves, sometime, and only mangle it just a bit to make it fit in their own language. :P

Useless information: In our local dialect, we call them Prusen.

[Nate the Great]

How are we all Germans? "German" is a cultural label, one that is not shared by most of us.

[mudshark]

Just in your lifetime, hm? :P
Yes, yes -- cue the "antiquity" jokes. I can take it. :p
The name Germany doesn't make much sense anyway. Historically speaking, we're all Germans. People who think up those words should start looking at what countries call themselves, sometime, and only mangle it just a bit to make it fit in their own language. :P
I suppose Deutschland really isn't much better, is it?
Useless information: In our local dialect, we call them Prusen.
How, then, do you keep the Prussians sorted out from the Bayerischers? (Actually, the Bavarians probably tended to stay home with their beer and cheese, while the Prussians were the ones who came to your town uninvited, so yeah... )


How are we all Germans? "German" is a cultural label, one that is not shared by most of us.
Oh? And what is your background, then -- Basque? Samoyed? Greek? Native American? Sino-Tibetan?

Most of Europe that isn't south of the Alps is, at the very least, culturally informed by one or more German branches and the language in which you speak and write is a Germanic language. The Lutheran religion which pervades your neighborhood originated in a city midway between Berlin and Leipzig, and just who did you suppose the Angles and the Saxons were? Unless you're a Martian or a Gray alien or something nearly as exotic, you're most likely up to your eyebrows in German, whether you knew it or not.

Edit: Come to think of it, Germans did a fair bit of mucking about in the rest of Europe, too, so if your family came from pretty much anywhere west of the Urals, there's a German influence in there somewhere or other.

[Chancellor Valium]

Yes, yes -- cue the "antiquity" jokes. I can take it. :p

So...what was Clodius Pulcher like at parites?

[catalina_marina]

I suppose Deutschland really isn't much better, is it?
Well that is what I was referring to. We call it Duitsland, hence the mangling.

How, then, do you keep the Prussians sorted out from the Bayerischers? (Actually, the Bavarians probably tended to stay home with their beer and cheese, while the Prussians were the ones who came to your town uninvited, so yeah... )
I give up. What are Bayerischers? People from some other German state or something?

Edit: Come to think of it, Germans did a fair bit of mucking about in the rest of Europe, too, so if your family came from pretty much anywhere west of the Urals, there's a German influence in there somewhere or other.
I suppose I was mostly referring to the language, since Americans tend to come from pretty much all of Europe anyway... I wouldn't call the French Germanic, really. But if you're German, Dutch, British... Than yeah, all German.

[mudshark]

So...what was Clodius Pulcher like at parites?
Bit tedious, actually.


I give up. What are Bayerischers? People from some other German state or something?
Bayern is what the Germans call the State of Bavaria, so the Bayerischers are the people who live there. (Also BMW stands for Bayerische Motoren Werke.)

I suppose I was mostly referring to the language, since Americans tend to come from pretty much all of Europe anyway... I wouldn't call the French Germanic, really. But if you're German, Dutch, British... Than yeah, all German.
If you go back to Charlemagne and before, many of the tribes in what is now France were Germans -- Burgundians, Franks (hence the name "France"), Merovingians and all of those, not to mention the odd hordes of Visigoths, Vandals and the like passing through -- and the rest were Celts who had been to a greater or lesser degree Romanized pre-4th century. It's only from Charlemagne onward that you begin to get a distinctly French national character, and even then you had Vikings (North Germanic) all over the place for a few hundred years adding to the mix.

[Nate the Great]

I consider my cultural background to be Minnesotan, but if you want names of European countries, that's a job for a PM or e-mail. It's a bit complicated.

[Zeke]

Betty, no question. Veronica is just arm candy; Betty is a girlfriend. (Besides, if Veronica is Mars, Betty must be Venus, right?)

[Nate the Great]

Wow. How many layers does that joke have? Veronica Mars, men are from Mars, women are from Venus, Mars candy bars, and so on.

[mudshark]

I consider my cultural background to be Minnesotan...
Okay, so... Jell-O salads, lutefisk, hotdish, Ole and Lena jokes and the Kensington Runestone, then. Not so much, eh?

[Nate the Great]

Erm, not exactly. Yes, I've indoctrinated myself into those aspects of my culture, but remember that I live in the Twin Cities. I hate hotdish, and in fact any casserole. Cream of anything soup is revolting to me. Never touched a drop of lutefisk in my life, but I know enough lutefisk jokes to nauseate anyone. Ole and Lena...oh goodness yes. As for the Kenzington Runestone, I knew about that secondhand, but not the exact circumstances. And we don't add "eh" to the end of our sentences. Although Howard Mohr's bestselling tape/CD/book/musical How to Talk Minnesotan takes a few liberties, it is accurate in a few places.

[catalina_marina]

Bayern is what the Germans call the State of Bavaria, so the Bayerischers are the people who live there. (Also BMW stands for Bayerische Motoren Werke.)
Oh Beieren! Why didn't you say so? :D


If you go back to Charlemagne and before, many of the tribes in what is now France were Germans -- Burgundians, Franks (hence the name "France"), Merovingians and all of those, not to mention the odd hordes of Visigoths, Vandals and the like passing through -- and the rest were Celts who had been to a greater or lesser degree Romanized pre-4th century. It's only from Charlemagne onward that you begin to get a distinctly French national character, and even then you had Vikings (North Germanic) all over the place for a few hundred years adding to the mix.
Okay, you might have a point there. But since I'm not that historically concious, I was still talking about the language. ;)

[Nate the Great]

A test: find a thread in this forum that has strayed further from the original point than this one.

[PointyHairedJedi]

The only one that I know of that ever did stay on topic for any length of time was, ironically, Topic Title.

[Nate the Great]

Well, and all of those one word at a time stories. In those cases, there is no point, but that IS the point. :)

[mudshark]

Oh Beieren! Why didn't you say so? :D
Well, it's like this: an alarmingly large number of years ago, I studied German in school for two or three years -- not enough to where I could pretend I was actually fluent in the language, but I could get around in it a bit. After that, I never used it very much, but bits of it continued to stick.

Then, after a certain favorite musician/composer of mine died in 1993, I was using Lexis/Nexis to find all the articles printed about him that I could. Somewhat surprisingly (to me, anyway), many of the articles I found were in Dutch, and I discovered that, as long as they didn't get too complicated, I could more or less follow what was being written. In short, I can recognize bits when I see them and be able to understand what enough of them mean to get the gist of the article, but it's a very long way from actually knowing the right words or place-names for things.

Okay, you might have a point there. But since I'm not that historically concious, I was still talking about the language. ;)
Fair enough. It's just that the longer you look at the history part, the more the language part tends to get inextricably tangled up in it. Bit of a mess, really. ;)

[Nate the Great]

Lexis/Nexus?

[mudshark]

No, Lexis/Nexis.

[Nate the Great]

Hardy har har. Seriously.

[catalina_marina]

Well, it's like this: an alarmingly large number of years ago, I studied German in school for two or three years -- not enough to where I could pretend I was actually fluent in the language, but I could get around in it a bit. After that, I never used it very much, but bits of it continued to stick.

Then, after a certain favorite musician/composer of mine died in 1993, I was using Lexis/Nexis to find all the articles printed about him that I could. Somewhat surprisingly (to me, anyway), many of the articles I found were in Dutch, and I discovered that, as long as they didn't get too complicated, I could more or less follow what was being written. In short, I can recognize bits when I see them and be able to understand what enough of them mean to get the gist of the article, but it's a very long way from actually knowing the right words or place-names for things.
It's a good way to say "I don't speak Dutch." :D
Lexis/Nexus?

Google it? (http://www.lexisnexis.com/)

[mudshark]

It's a good way to say "I don't speak Dutch." :D
That's it, pretty much. ;)

[Nate the Great]

So I go to lexisnexis.com and the first thing I see is "LexisNexis® is a leading provider of information and services solutions, including its flagship Web-based Lexis® and Nexis® research services." Thanks! That cleared THAT up!

I guess I could claim to have had a joke in mind with my typo about a LUXURY dream realm contained within a DESIGNER energy ribbon, but I can't claim to be that clever.