January 5

[Zeke]

Today we have a link that Kira recommended: The Edge's World Question Centre (http://www.edge.org/q2005/q05_print.html). Every year, a group called the Edge Foundation poses a question and then archives some of the better-known respondents' answers, generally from scientists and other members of publisher John Brockman's "third culture." This year's question is a good one: "What do you believe is true even though you cannot prove it?" I don't usually do comment threads for link days, but I think it might be interesting to see what sort of answers 5MV's readers give for this question. (I'm certainly as interested in hearing from you guys as I am in hearing from this third culture thing.)

[Flixibixi]

I believe that with infinite realities with infinite possibilities, everything exists in infinite forms. Meaning that in infinite realities, what happens on this board is a TV show or a movie or a novel or the basis of a lullaby.

Of course, the reverse would be true. In infinite realities, everything that's happened in Star Trek actually happened in real life, even the bits that contradicted other bits.

So everytime we create something creative, we are actually crossing dimesions and translating the information we receive from them into a format we can then understand.

...oh god, then every unspeakably bad fanfic actually happened...in INFINITE REALITIES.

Just think about that a bit more. It'll all sink in, and you'll feel all-powerful and all-guilty at the same time. :twisted:

[Michiel]

I believe, but cannot prove, that the human mind/brain is nothing more than a biological/chemical computer and that true AI is possible.

In other words, I do not believe in a spirit/soul that makes human intelligence unique. The reason we have not yet been able to reproduce it, is that it is a very complex system, that took bilions of years of evolution to develop.

However, some day, we will be able to. (Lets just hope that the AI's will not discover what useless and inefficient creatures humans are. ;))

[Derek]

I believe, but cannot prove, that the human mind/brain is nothing more than a biological/chemical computer and that true AI is possible.
That's funny because I believe, but cannot prove, that AI will never be like the human brain.

I think a computer is very good at logic and rule following, but I see no basis for a computer to have emotions, a subconscious, or any sort of intuition. Because of this lack, an ego for the AI will be very hard, as will be the AI's ability to choose to be loyal, kind, or brave. Sure, you can program it to be any of those things, but it will just be following the rules you have set up for it.

Also, I don't think an AI will ever have the sort of instincts that a human has. I don't see an AI actually having a self-preservation instinct or a mothering instinct or anything like that, at least, not without them being programmed in, and that doesn't count.

On the other hand, I do believe that AI will get very sophisticated. It will eventually be able to understand human language and be able to respond in kind. It will be able to recognize faces and be able to read expressions. It will be able to figure out what you're trying to do in a word processor and will be able to help you much more helpfully than any paperclip ever could. Basically, I think computers will meet and surpass the level of the Enterprise-D's computer, maybe even to the point where people will call the computer alive, but I don't think it will ever be like the human brain.

[Gatac]

I believe that AI is possible on the basis of neural net theory. However, I believe it will be vastly different from human intelligence; in the end, it will understand our language, but we have no guarantee that it will understand concepts attached to the language. However, true, sentient AI will develop several goals we may comprehend: primarily, self-conservation and procreation. It will act on the basis of these goals.

Incidentally, I also believe that the constant disenfranchising of people in favor of concepts and organisations will lead to humanity's downfall.

Gatac

[evay]

The problem will not be sentient AIs; the problem will be stopping them from wiping us out as ugly bags of mostly water. We are inefficient in a way they will not be. The only hope for us is to give the AIs superego, conscience, and "souls" so that they see us as part of IDIC and not an impediment to their rule of the planet.


I believe but cannot prove there's intelligent life on planets other than this one. The universe is just too honkin' big for us to be that unique.

I firmly believe that when you do a kindness with no expectation or receipt of reward, it will come back to you in the form of someone else doing you a kindness when you least expect it. That's happened to me often enough that I could practically call it "proof."

I believe it's time for lunch. --No wait, I can prove that one.

[mudshark]

Also, I don't think an AI will ever have the sort of instincts that a human has. I don't see an AI actually having a self-preservation instinct or a mothering instinct or anything like that, at least, not without them being programmed in, and that doesn't count. Hmm. Without programming, how could you ever have AI to begin with?

Concerning self-preservation, at least, Asimov's Third Law would seem to have this covered.
1. A robot may not harm a human being, or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm.
2. A robot must obey the orders given to it by human beings, except where such orders would conflict with the First Law.
3. A robot must protect its own existence, as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Law. Not saying that AI would necessarily have to be governed by these very Laws, but you'd have to establish some sort of framework, wouldn't you?

The problem will not be sentient AIs; the problem will be stopping them from wiping us out as ugly bags of mostly water. We are inefficient in a way they will not be. The only hope for us is to give the AIs superego, conscience, and "souls" so that they see us as part of IDIC and not an impediment to their rule of the planet. See again the "Three Laws of Robotics" above. The addition of the "Zeroeth Law" would probably be a whole 'nother question. I believe but cannot prove there's intelligent life on planets other than this one. The universe is just too honkin' big for us to be that unique.. I'd be in complete agreement with you on that one -- it's statistically unlikely, to say the least, that we'd be alone in the Universe.


Edit: spelling brain-fade. Any other errors in this post are entirely my fault.

[MaverickZer0]

It would be next to impossible to program those laws into a truly sentient AI. If, through whatever fluke, a robot could actually think, they could simply choose not to follow the laws.

Of course, then the debate over AI/robot souls would start, which is probably the only reason they haven't started working on them yet.

I believe in the capability for a true AI (obviously), and in alternate dimensions as well. Therefore, somewhere ot there, there are bioroids.

That could be either a good thing or a bad thing, depending on that 'infinite possibilities' deal.

[evay]

It would be next to impossible to program those laws into a truly sentient AI. If, through whatever fluke, a robot could actually think, they could simply choose not to follow the laws.
Of course, then the debate over AI/robot souls would start,

Which is the reason I said that giving an AI a soul/conscience/superego is the best way to keep it/them from turning on us. About.com's Julia Houston once wrote: "It's a simple Trek truth: create something sentient and it will do what it wants, not what you want." As human beings, we are all sentient, and we have the ability to do what we want. The reason we don't all embark on murderous rampages hourly is that we've been taught that it's bad -- we've learned empathy, we've learned conscience.

I posit that to prevent, for example, V.I.K.I., the AI from I, Robot which decided Robot was superior to Man, we would have to rear the AIs as though we were rearing children -- love them, teach them, guide them, discipline them. Sociopaths have no empathy. That's why serial killers are usually sociopaths. They have no concept of the emotions of others, and don't care. I think our best hope to keep AIs from becoming sociopathic by definition is to teach them empathy. Make them more human, in other words.

[Sa'ar Chasm]

Short answer: nothing.

Silly answer: the world is secretly run by a group of super-intelligent lemmings.

[Derek]

Hmm. Without programming, how could you ever have AI to begin with?
Heh. True. My point was that an AI has to be true to its programming, and so I didn't think that an AI would just randomly adopt new instincts that it hadn't been programmed with.

In other words, that cliched plot where the computer becomes intelligent and the first thing it does is destroy everyone who tries to pull the plug on it seems a bit hokey to me since very often the computer wouldn't have been programmed for self-preservation (at least, that's not a priority in the programs I write).

Similarly, evay, I don't believe an AI would try wiping out all of humanity because it is wasteful and inefficient unless it were programmed to do so, or at least, programmed to think wastefulness and inefficiency were bad. And I don't believe it would have any ambition to rule the planet unless it were designed to do so or at least programmed to think that was a desirable goal.

[Kira]

(Sa'ar is totally this guy (http://www.edge.org/q2005/q05_9.html#sapolsky).)

Not surprisingly, most of mine are closely related to my field of research.

I believe that gene therapy will be a reality in my lifetime for diseases such as diabetes and cystic fibrosis.

I believe that we will have genetically-based cancer therapies in the next ten to twenty years that will be far more specific and effective than current chemotherapy (and I intend to be among those helping that process along). Our knowledge of the massive range of genetic anomalies that lead to cancer is constantly expanding, and combined with advances in genetics and gene therapy, I believe therapies targeted to particular genotypes of cancer are within our reach.

To the AI debate... what he said. (http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/bios/pickover.html) I believe that true artificial intelligence is possible, though it may be biological rather than technical. Our brains are a complex network of (relatively) simple parts, like neurons. We are only limited by our understanding of the brain and neuronal communication and concepts such as memory and personality, but eventually I believe science will catch up and, in some form, we will be able to create an artificial neural network. Whether it will be "sentient"... only time will tell.

I also agree with several of the answers in the article: namely, that cells can be changed from one type to another (http://www.edge.org/q2005/q05_print.html#wilmut), that life in the universe is ubiquitous (http://www.edge.org/q2005/q05_5.html#venter) and we will discover that microbial life exists elsewhere in the galaxy (http://www.edge.org/q2005/q05_4.html#ford), that software is limiting computers (http://www.edge.org/q2005/q05_3.html#simonyi), that my dog has feelings (http://www.edge.org/q2005/q05_10.html#ledoux), that cattle prods support the existence of electrons (http://www.edge.org/q2005/q05_3.html#lloyd), and that we are all climaticly screwed. (http://www.edge.org/q2005/q05_8.html#sterling)

[Chancellor Valium]

Short Answer: God.
Alternative answer: That David Icke is a charlatan - no, wait, that's just obvious :P
Silly Answer: that the Estonian Government are smuggling cheesecake into New Mexico as part of an evil scheme, possibly involving the Daleks :mrgreen:
Yet another answer: that the problem with AI is when we give them personalities - no, wait, look at Marvin in the HH's Guide, or Eddie, on the Heart of Gold. Scary, but possibly true. Oh, and I agree with evay.
Yes, I did decide to ripoff Sa'ar. So what? I can't be bothered to be original, that takes effort :P

[Sa'ar Chasm]

(Sa'ar is totally this guy.)

Please. I couldn't grow a beard like that if I tried until I was his age.

I'm only mostly that guy.

Worst thing about being an atheist: nobody to blame when life craps in your face.

[MaverickZer0]

Worst thing about being an atheist: nobody to blame when life craps in your face.

Well, you can blame your parents for making you be born.

And now that I'm not at school and have had more time to think about it, I can give another answer too. I believe that genetic engineering, as in breathing life into a sequence of DNA chemically created, is or will be possible. That also scares me, since even if we do bring them up as humans, they might be inclined to, well....

Pull a Khan. (http://www.startrek.com/startrek/view/library/episodes/TOS/detail/68708.html)

As it were.

[Gatac]

Actually, Sa'ar, one thing that gives me great solace as an Agnostic/borderline Atheist is that if something goes wrong, I do not have to rationalise it. The universe is - to me - intrinsically amoral; if I believe otherwise, how do I explain it if it rewards or punishes me for no apparent reason? If it's random, it can do whatever the hell it wants, if it's not, then why does it not do what can be inferred from the laws it's supposed to follow?

Gatac

[Michiel]

Exactly.

You know, I used to think it was awful that life was so unfair. Then I thought, wouldn't it be much worse if life were fair, and all the terrible things that happen to us come because we actually deserve them? So, now I take great comfort in the general hostility and unfairness of the universe.

[Xeroc]

What do I believe but can't prove?

That we as humans will eventually improve ourselves, and fix all the problems of society and our world.


In Response To Kira:

I agree entirely with the ideas of advanced medicine, in fact I'm in that field, I am currently a Biotechnology Student!


In Response To The Whole AI Debate:

I believe in someting entirely different.
That we don't need AI really, what I think would be the most powerful would be a combination of life and computers to create a being more powerful than either alone. I believe by integrating technology into ourselves we will be able to overcome many problems and accomplish more than was ever possible, or even imaginable.
(And by powerful, I don't mean physically or empircally alone)
If this is accomplished it eliminates the entire notion of machines conquering us. If we are the machinery, we have nothing to worry! (Additionally, it would be kind of shortsighted to make something that destroyed you, now wouldn't it?)


In Response To Sa'ar's (and other's) Comments About Athiesm, etc.:

I am not an atheist.
But I do not believe in God.
I believe the universe is made of more than just what we see now.
But I don't believe it is fair, either.
I believe we have a life-force that extends beyond us, and we exist after we die.
But I don't believe in heaven, hell, or in a classical "soul".
I do not believe the universe is entirely random.
But I don't believe it is entirely logical, either.
I don't believe we have anyone to blame for the actions of the universe.
But I don't think we need anyone to blame.
I don't believe we have entire control over our lives, or that we deserve everything put upon us.
But I <u>do</u> believe we should use all the control we have, because I believe it is enough to accomplish anything.

[Hotaru]

I believe I was to lazy to read all that you posted :P

Short: I believe in God.

Long: I believe in God, the father almighty, creator of heaven and earth. I believe in Jesus Christ, his only son our lord. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy Catholic church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurection of the body, and life everlasting.

and an apostles creed with the history of Jesus cut out.

[KillerGodMan]

Simple Answer: God

Not so simple and quite silly answer: The Screen Actor's Guild rules the United States

Another answer: Someone who isn't God is watching and controlling us

[evay]

Actually, Sa'ar, one thing that gives me great solace as an Agnostic/borderline Atheist is that if something goes wrong, I do not have to rationalise it.
Yep. Shit happens. Sometimes shit happens to good people. And there's nothing you can do but cope. I don't find "solace" per se in my atheism, but for me it's the most sensible, logical explanation for everything. Occam's Razor.

In fact, here's another answer to the question: I believe that we'll eventually figure out the origins of the universe, and that they will be scientific and natural, and have nothing whatsoever to do with any deity or omnipotent power. It clearly won't happen in my lifetime, but I think it will someday happen.

[mudshark]

(I believe that we will have genetically-based cancer therapies in the next ten to twenty years that will be far more specific and effective than current chemotherapy A good thing, if it happens. It's been my impression that chemo is almost as deadly as the cancer it's supposed to cure.

[NeoMatrix]

Short Answer: God

What? You thought I would say that the Matrix? Where would you get that idea from?

[Kira]

(I believe that we will have genetically-based cancer therapies in the next ten to twenty years that will be far more specific and effective than current chemotherapy A good thing, if it happens. It's been my impression that chemo is almost as deadly as the cancer it's supposed to cure.
Urge... to ramble... rising....

It involves creating viruses that can only replicate in (and destroy) cancer cells. Oncoviruses, as they're called, are to current chemotherapy as carpet bombing is to a precise guided missile. It's very cool, if I do say so myself.

[Sa'ar Chasm]

It involves creating viruses that can only replicate in (and destroy) cancer cells. Oncoviruses, as they're called, are to current chemotherapy as carpet bombing is to a precise guided missile.

Haven't you got that backwards?

As a chemist, I'm obliged to plug photodynamic therapy, especially if someone comes up with a pH-sensitive drug so you don't have to sit in the dark for three hours after the treatment.

Science threadjack well under way.

[Kira]

Haven't you got that backwards?
I take no responsibility for analogies made before the sun's up.

[Sa'ar Chasm]

Fair enough. I don't really get going until after 9AM either.

[Chancellor Valium]

Fair enough. I don't really get going until after 9AM either.
:shock: :shock: You've got going by 9:00? Egad!
EDIT: This isn't meant to be sarcastic :wink:

[Sa'ar Chasm]

Not by choice. Inconsiderate people schedule meetings and classes and labs then.

Hell, last semester I had to be at school at 8 to ride herd on students. On a Friday, no less. I had to leave my apartment no later than 7:30ish to make it on time.

This is not fun when the sun isn't up. One of the curses of living at higher latitudes. It's hard to get out of bed when it's still dark outside. I'm just luck I'm not female and don't have to spend hours primping beforehand.

[Chancellor Valium]

I know about trying to wake up in the dark too, lol. Admittedly, England is a bit lower down than Canada, for which I am very grateful. If I want to be cold, I go to Scotland. For summer :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

[Zeke]

Haven't you got that backwards?
I take no responsibility for analogies made before the sun's up.
Before sunrise he's your son.

[Kira]

You've got going by 9:00? Egad!
Actually, today was a late morning because I was lazy and stayed in bed listening to my cd alarm for an hour. Normally, and especially when the sunrise is earlier, I'm up at 6:30 and out the door by 8, 7 if I'm going to the gym.

[evay]

You are all such whining amateurs. Some of us have to be awake and rolling at five a.m. in order to be at work on time. In June and July I get up at dawn, but otherwise my alarm goes off well before sunrise. (which really sucks in April and September, when said sunrise is at 00 mark 20 and I'm driving directly into it.)

[Kira]

The benefits of living two minutes away from work, I guess. :D

[Alexia]

5am? :shock: *faints* evay...you're a nutter :wink: I'm so not a morning person :wink: Even when I get up and drive into work I haven't really woken up till 11am with the help of a few cups of tea...

They don't need to worry about me falling asleep at the wheel. I already am when I get in the car :wink:

[Gatac]

evay, you have my sympathies. I did the "5 AM to work" thing for three months in Basic and two months more recently, and it was horribly every time. I have to get up at 6 two days a week for university, which is bad enough. The worst part is walking through the dark, arriving at the lecture and listening for two hours while the sun rises outside. You just want to jump up, run outside and throw yourself at the next soft spot to sleep some more. I show my true colors when I have time off; 10 AM, no sooner. (Though that doesn't equate more sleep; I stay up longer in the evenings.)

Gatac

[Celeste]

Before sunrise he's your son.
That's it! Now I have the urge to go watch The Lion King. Thanks Zeke.

[Hotaru]

Though that doesn't equate more sleep; I stay up longer in the evenings.

Yeah, I'm like that too. Weekdays I go to bed at 11 and am up at 7. Weekends I go to bed at 3 and am up at 11. Equal sleep time, yet I feel more refreshed.

[MaverickZer0]

In response to the whole AI/free will debate.

Here is a link that displays the OPPOSITE of my point of view:

http://mmco.megaman-network.com/analyses/freewill.shtml


And here is a link that displays, in fact, my very own point of view:

http://maverickz3r0.tripod.com/

Erm...ignore the first paragraph if you want.

Given that these use Mega Man as correlation, it is one of the few good video games to draw reference from. I would go on, but frankly, my wrist is sore from all that.

[Sa'ar Chasm]

Weekdays I go to bed at 11 and am up at 7. Weekends I go to bed at 3 and am up at 11.

Last night: asleep at 5AM, awake at 2:30. Stupid jet lag.

[PointyHairedJedi]

Hmm. This is all kinda... interesting. Though really, what I believe is of no consequence.

[Michiel]

In response to the whole AI/free will debate.

I've had many discussions about the free will part of the debate. When I tell some people my views they will not even consider them, because it would mean they'd have no 'free will'. But in my opinion, free will is one of those terms that isn't defined very clearly.

If you define free will as something that requires a human brain, then indeed, humans have free will and AI's never will. If, however, it is defined as a power that can influence that which has been predetermained from the beginning of existance (if there is such a thing,) I believe that free will doesn't exist at all.

Of course, free will is a handy concept. It is used in a lot of ways. For example, without it, the criminal-justice-system would collapse. And to quote Q, every society must control its disruptive elements. So if you MUST use the the concept, it could also apply to AI's. Before granting that 'status' to AI's, though, its programming should be examined to prove it does indeed have free will. Because I believe that some day, maybe even before AI's exist, we will have figured out (one of) the programming structure(s) that qualifies as human like intelligence.

[evay]

If you define free will as something that requires a human brain, then indeed, humans have free will and AI's never will. If, however, it is defined as a power that can influence that which has been predetermined from the beginning of existence (if there is such a thing,) I believe that free will doesn't exist at all.

I don't understand why these are your two options. Either free will only requires a human brain and the state of the rest of the universe is irrelevant, OR free will thwarts fate and the willer is irrelevant? Those are barely related. In fact, you could combine them into one person and eliminate the "or" of your conjecture. If you're presenting an either/or, don't the two have to be mutually exclusive? Either free will can ONLY come from a human brain or it's not "free will"? Either fate is predetermined and nothing has free will or There Is No Fate But What We Make? I'm confused about what you're trying to say.

[Michiel]

My point was that the words 'free will' are not clearly defined. If someone ever says that humans have free will and AI's never will (which is the case for a lot of people I've talked to about the subject), then they must use that defenition of free will (without the other one.)

I myself usually use the second defenition when I say that free will does not exist. I believe in 'fate' (the preprogrammed-ness of the universe.)

I'm sure there are MORE defenitions than those two. You can define it however you want. I don't believe any defenition is the 'correct' one. That's just a matter of language.

[Hotaru]

Definitions can change! They just need a little help. It can be hard to change....

Also, I don't believe in fate. Yay for Catholic school religion classes that beat the thought of fate out of my head! Yay!

[Gatac]

(re: January 11th update)

Like the teaser. Need to comment on short hair news.

First off, a disclaimer of sorts. I wear my hair long. I have a McGyver-ish mass of (black) hair reaching down to my shoulders, and if anything, it'll grow larger and not be trimmed down. I've flip-flopped between various hair lengths all my life, but I'm increasingly coming to the conclusion that I like it best that way. True, it needs a bit more care, but it's also a bit more expressive and looks - imho - friendlier. I also have a light beard, not overly pronounced, but it's there and there to stay.

Now, I fully understand why some people don't like long hair. It requires time to look good, and even then it flops around a bit. Also, no two long haircuts can be made to look alike, owing to the structure of one's basic hairstyle. A short cut, however, is easy to do, easy to take care of, and easy to make look uniform. Individuality? Forget about it. This is what the debate is about.

The whole shebang is similar to the school uniform debate and bull excrement of the same calibre. If you dress rowdies and loonies up nice, they're still rowdies and loonies, though they do look more respectable while beating up the smaller kids for lunch money. What's it supposed to be about? Sensory overload? The Jury finds the defendants STUPID. There.

And, really, don't get me started on school uniforms. I can wear a suit and make it look good, but that's because I'm able to decide for myself how it should look. Dressing everyone up exactly the same means that nobody looks good in it. And really, what's the point of that? (Other than adding to overall teenage depression, that is...)

Gatac

[Opium]

You are all such whining amateurs. Some of us have to be awake and rolling at five a.m. in order to be at work on time.

5 am? That's bedtime, not getting up time!
I often end up with a night schedule to my theatre activities...bedtime at 2 or 3 am, and getting up at around 9am or 10 am. In fact, even when I get up at noon, it probably means I didn't get to bed until 6am.

Of course, then sometimes my body protests my nightowlness, and makes me sleep at 8pm, and get up 4am.

[/ends TMI]

[Kira]

5 am? That's bedtime, not getting up time!
My friend sent me an email with a list of signs you're getting "old." One of them was "You get up at 6 instead of going to bed at 6." It's sad because it's true. (The other good one was, "You only eat cereal at breakfast time.")

A short cut, however, is easy to do, easy to take care of, and easy to make look uniform. Individuality? Forget about it.
I think I speak for most if not all women when I say a short cut is also more appealing and less "ew." Girlfriend? Forget about it. ;)

[Gatac]

Kira: Sounds like you've never seen long hair done right. :)

Gatac

[evay]

I think I speak for most if not all women when I say a short cut is also more appealing and less "ew."

Depends on the gentleman in question, and what his hair looks like. C'mon, David Lee Roth sans blond mane? Dirk Benedict's Starbuck without the perfectly feathered flip? Legolas with Will Turner's mop? Can't make a blanket statement about hair length for either gender.

[Kira]

Gatac: There's a "done right"?

evay: Ew, the '70s don't count, and definitely better off without the waist-length blond mane. :D

[Sa'ar Chasm]

Girlfriend? Forget about it.

Sa'ar has short(ish) hair, and no girlfriend.

Explain that. :P

Actually, on second thought, I'm not sure I want you to.

[Gatac]

Kira: Yes, as far as I am concerned, there's a very definitive "done right", depending on whether you have naturally straight or curly hair. Unfortunately for me, it's easier with straight hair. (Mine's curly and won't straighten for the life of it.)

Gatac

[evay]

Ew, the '70s don't count,
why not? We're talking about hair in general, not just 21st-century hair.

and definitely better off without the waist-length blond mane. :D
I'm going to assume you're talking about DLR and not Legolas. I probably should've used Eddie Van Halen in that example; Diamond Dave's looking a bit tarnished these days. Although he is working as a paramedic in the Bronx, so he's forgiven for being a little run-down.

[Zeke]

I've tried the long hair thing. Even had a ponytail for a while. I could glorify it as an act of rebellion, but the thought process was really more like "Yikes, Dad's going bald fast. Better enjoy this hair while I've got it."

Also, Tom Cruise was so hot in Mission: Impossible 2....

-- Uh, not that I would notice, because I am straight as an arrow. AN ARROW I SAY.

I think I speak for most if not all women when I say a short cut is also more appealing and less "ew." Girlfriend? Forget about it. ;)

And conversely, for a man who's proud of his long hair, a girl is really the only reason that cuts it.

[Gatac]

Meh to homophobia; I'll join in saying that Tom Cruise looked damn good in MI2, and you can quote me on that. Now if only it was a better movie...

I think it's perfectly alright to discuss the relative beauty of both male and female celebrities regardless of one's sexual orientation.

Gatac

[Sa'ar Chasm]

Pagan friends of mine tell me that long hair is a sign of virility or a warrior or something.

I think it's the sign of someone with an acute fear of the barber.

(Says the guy who gets his hair cut once every four months whether he needs it or not.)

[Derek]

I think I speak for most if not all women when I say a short cut is also more appealing and less "ew." Girlfriend? Forget about it. ;)
Heh. I'm sure you speak for my wife. She'd mentioned to me that I needed a haircut a couple of times over the past week or so, and when I got it caught on Monday, she was very happy.

But I've never really been one for growing my hair long. Nor facial hair for that matter. I had some big sideburns in high school, and I'd sometimes go a month or two without shaving in college, but I've never really preferred the look. Maybe if I lived up north, it'd make sense to grow a beard, but it sure doesn't down here in this sweltering heat. (Yes, sweltering. Even today.)

[Zeke]

Meh to homophobia

Oh, come on. That was not "homophobia" by any reasonable measure.

[Opium]

Meh to homophobia; I'll join in saying that Tom Cruise looked damn good in MI2, and you can quote me on that. Now if only it was a better movie...

I think it's perfectly alright to discuss the relative beauty of both male and female celebrities regardless of one's sexual orientation.

Gatac

Yay for a guy who can admit that other men can be beautiful!

As for guys with long or longish hair...Johnny Depp. Johnny Depp in "Secret Window". Johnny Depp in Once Upon A Time In Mexico. Johnny Depp in ...you get the picture! If it's done right, longish hair on a guy can look very good. However, not a lot of guys can pull it off really well. But some can. And how! *swoons over Johnny Depp*
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v185/PoppySeedStuff/depp1.jpg

[Gatac]

No, it wasn't, and I'm sorry if you took it that way. This was not in fact an attack of your statement, but meant to address the same audience that led you to include the "straight" disclaimer.

I'm not afraid of barbers. Heck, back when I was regularly getting my hair bleached, I spent more time at the barbers than during the latest period of short-hairedness. I find that long hair needs to get recolored perhaps half as often as short hair needs to be cut, but the former takes an hour or so while the latter uses up all of five minutes.

Gatac

[Kira]

Maybe if I lived up north, it'd make sense to grow a beard, but it sure doesn't down here in this sweltering heat. (Yes, sweltering. Even today.)
Current windchill: -39. I'm not sure a beard would really help all that much....

[Opium]

-39 where you are? Yikes! It's just around at freezing here!

[MaverickZer0]

No kidding. It's about -1 here.

And I will go so far as to say Tom Cruise looked damn good in both MI movies, and Top Gun.

I wear my hair past my shoulders, and right now it's part purple and part my original color (black). I don't have any problem at all with it. I'm even planning on growing it out longer. And maybe dying it again.

As for the whole girlfriend issue...well, I'm not going to change how I look. Besides, I've yet to even attempt asking out a girl.

[Sa'ar Chasm]

Current windchill: -39. I'm not sure a beard would really help all that much...

It's actually hard to grow a beard in that weather, 'cause the hairs stay inside to keep warm.

[Kira]

-39 where you are? Yikes! It's just around at freezing here!
The forcast for tomorrow morning is -35 with a balmy -52 windchill, but that's what they said about this morning too and they were wrong. I'll believe it when I feel it... or can no longer feel anything, as the case may be.

[Wowbagger]

Mwahaha! It is a balmy 28.1 degrees out here!

Wait... are ya'll using Celsius?

To comment on today's news post: I knew a guy who, as an FMV fan, thought Five Minute Doom was about the funniest thing he had ever read. Of course, he was in sixth grade at the time... but still... Just don't discount brief humor; it can be more effective than long stuff.

Let's see, what do I believe in? It's exam week (drawing the strange looks for giggling over Voyagers after finishing), so I'm not going to get real involved here.

I firmly believe that, somewhere, there's a place where 6 by 9 equals 42, and where "soon" is concretely defined by the International Scientific Measurements system. I also may or may not believe that Canada is a myth created by our government to give rise to the State Of Fear, depending on whether or not John Ashcroft is reading this.

Wow. I'm tireder than I thought.

[Kira]

As for guys with long or longish hair...Johnny Depp. Johnny Depp in "Secret Window". Johnny Depp in Once Upon A Time In Mexico. Johnny Depp in ...you get the picture!
...Yeah, I'll concede Johnny Depp. Doesn't mean I wouldn't still make him cut it, though. :D

[Hotaru]

I have long-ish BLUE-BLACK hair. What do you say to that? My friend thinks it's hot, so it's okay with me :D

It's -42 here :cry:

[Hotaru]

and Zeke, you may want to fix the all link for Voyager on the main page. It links to ...all.html.

[Zeke]

I'll fix that, Hotaru. Thanks.

...Yeah, I'll concede Johnny Depp.

It works for John Travolta, too. And Marcus Cole. Boy does it work for Marcus Cole.

AS AN ARROW.

[evay]

mmmmmmm Johnny Depp long hair short hair Edward Scissorhands hair Jack Sparrow dreads mmmmmmm

AS AN ARROW.
I'd put more credence in that comment if you'd said it about Top Gun.

[Nan]

(Says the guy who gets his hair cut once every four months whether he needs it or not.)

The Skywalker hair! Mullet. Whatever. ;)

[Sa'ar Chasm]

It's not a mullet when I can't see out past my bangs. :P

[MaverickZer0]

AS AN ARROW.
I'd put more credence in that comment if you'd said it about Top Gun.

Yeah, cause he looked so good in Top Gun...I watch that movie every time it's on TV...which is a lot...

I think I'll stop now.

[Nan]

It's not a mullet when I can't see out past my bangs. :P

Mullet mullet mullet mullet mullet!

At least it's not a skullet. Or worse, a rat skullet. :D

[evay]

At least it's not a skullet. Or worse, a rat skullet. :D

I cannot believe you made me Google the word "skullet." (http://www.angelfire.com/80s/mullethq/skullets.html)

[Sa'ar Chasm]

http://www.science.uottawa.ca/CGSA/images/Curling/Hpim0099.jpg

This is not a mullet. I'm on the left.

[Gatac]

I really hope I don't end up like that...

Gatac

[Hotaru]

My hair is alot like Sa'ar's, but a bit longer and much more blue.

It is not a mullet.

[Sa'ar Chasm]

Strictly speaking, my hair doesn't currently look like that. That's just its preferred median state between freshly shorn and borderline white trash. When I cease to look like a Beatle and start looking like Jeff Foxworthy, it's time for a shearing. I had it hacked off just before Christmas, so I'm good until April or so.

[Opium]

I'll fix that, Hotaru. Thanks.

...Yeah, I'll concede Johnny Depp.

It works for John Travolta, too. And Marcus Cole. Boy does it work for Marcus Cole.

AS AN ARROW.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOO!
John Travolta shall NEVER be in the same catagory as Johnny Depp. John Travolta...yech. And not due to his looks...for things he has said! Yuck yuck yuck yuck yuck *goes to have shower for even mentioning John Travolta's name*

[Nan]

...Strictly speaking...

Ooh. Nan mode is on, I see.

[Chancellor Valium]

My hair is now "a rather ugly sugary thing constructed in five dimensions". What? I didn't mention whether it was me in this universe or not, did I? :P :mrgreen:

[Zeke]

Opium, I removed about half of your string of Os because it was deforming the thread. Please make sure any desperate cries you make in the future are wrappable. :)

What are these things Travolta has said?

[Draknek]

I'm currently growing my hair, out of laziness. (But also out of my head.)

*carefully sidesteps the celebrity discussion*

[Xeroc]

I've always had short hair, and it's never been anything real creative, either.


*also doesn't comment on the debate*

[MaverickZer0]

One reason I'm growing my hair out is out of laziness. The other reason is I want to see how long it'll take to wash the purple out.

Two and a half months and counting.

*jumps out of the celebrity debate for fear of already having said too much*

[Opium]

Opium, I removed about half of your string of Os because it was deforming the thread. Please make sure any desperate cries you make in the future are wrappable. :)

What are these things Travolta has said?

Okay...how do I make them wrappable? Meh, I'll figure it out! Or will I?

Anyways...Travolta said some very disparaging things about a certian country because public opinion feels that Travolta's relgious belief system is often more about money instead of truth. Then he took one case of standard, nasty bullying that he had heard and turned into the whole country turning onto a Nazi state. His analogies did not stand up and he logic was totally out of line in his comments. Accusing a country of being a Nazi state is a very horrible thing to do, esspecially a country that is democratic, has freedom of speech, and is one of the G8 nations.

[Zeke]

Um, guys? You can stop scurrying away from the "debate." There isn't one. I wasn't challenging Opium. I honestly had no idea what the man said, and I was asking her. I still don't know what he said because she was so tactful. :) To avoid making you all any more nervous, I'll take it to PM from here. Just relax.

Opium, the wordwrap used in browsers doesn't split a word unless it has a place to do so (namely a punctuation mark). As a result, your NOOOO couldn't be split, so it made the page wider than a Star Destroyer. Next time you feel the need to scream, just make your words shorter or stick hyphens in them.

[Opium]

NOOOOOOOOO!
I will never make my NOOOO's shorter! Okay, I will.
:P

[Chancellor Valium]

it made the page wider than a Star Destroyer.
lol, that's a nice analogy :mrgreen:

[Derek]

Okay...how do I make them wrappable? Meh, I'll figure it out! Or will I?
One way is to insert & #8203; (no space between & and #8203; though) into the middle of your exclamation. & #8203; causes the browser to break a word up silently.

ex:
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO​ OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO​OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO​OOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOO​OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO​OOOOOOOOOOOOO​OOOOOO OOOOOOO​OOOOOOOOOOO​OOOOOOOOOOOOO​OOOOOOOOO!

There are actually two other ways to break up words in browsers, <wbr> and & shy;, but <wbr> isn't allowed by the forums as valid html, and & shy; doesn't work in Firefox.

[Opium]

Thanks :)

[Flixibixi]

The slacker, sillier looking way is to just hit enter before the sentence wraps in the box.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

and so on. It'd probably work if you did that for the whole post.

[Draknek]

Vaguely on topic: I love today's webcomic link!

Especially the comments that the creator makes.

Also, can someone find me some webcomics that were linked to a few weeks back? They were both made by the same guy, and one had to do with a college.

They seem to have fallen off the bottom of the news page before I could continue reading them.

[Xeroc]

I agree, the Pixel comic is great! :D

[Zeke]

Also, can someone find me some webcomics that were linked to a few weeks back? They were both made by the same guy, and one had to do with a college.

That would be Building 12 and Misfile. Glad somebody followed those links -- they're the best webcomics I've discovered in quite a while.

They seem to have fallen off the bottom of the news page before I could continue reading them.

Actually, the November (../news/04nov.html) and December (../news/04dec.html) pages are online, just not linked. (My Net connection is crawling today.) You'll find those links on the latter page.

[Kira]

Actually, the November (../news/04nov.html) and December (../news/04dec.html) pages are online, just not linked.
Um... they are? 'Cause I'm getting a 404.

[Draknek]

Thanks.

I tried the 04dec.html page when I was looking. Doesn't work for me either.

[Zeke]

Oops, sorry about that. I thought those uploaded successfully. I've fixed it.