30th Anniversary TNG Episode Discussion Marathon

[Nate the Great]

CRUSHER [OC]: Doctor Crusher to Ensign Crusher. Aren't you supposed to be getting a hair cut, Wesley?

Is this an official duty as chief medical officer, or did she just make a personal call on company time? And wouldn't it be more embarrassing for her to ask Mr. Mot to page Wes? She's really dropping the ball...

LAL: Why do we have two hands? Why not three or four? Why is the sky black? Why do
(He switches her off in mid-question)

I get the joke, but after what we went through in "Measure of a Man" I find this insensitive. You stun a kid with a phaser just for asking questions. Plus, all this stuff should've been in the initial encyclopedia Data put in her brain.

PICARD: I assure you, Admiral, there's no better guide into this life for Lal than Data.

I find myself wondering if Data had an equivalent to Dr. Mora who could be called...

PICARD: This starship's mission is to seek out new life and that is exactly what Commander Data is doing.

No, it's not. Data is parenting, not exploring. Unless you're going to call all parents explorers...

PICARD: As do I. I would be willing to consider releasing Lal and Data to you so that he may continue his work with her.
HAFTEL [on monitor]: His presence would undoubtedly retard the new android's progress.

Where did Haftel get that idea? Is there a history of androids being lousy teachers for other androids?

PICARD: Admiral, to you, Lal is a new android. But to Data, she's his child.
HAFTEL [on monitor]: His child?

Yadda yadda yadda should've been in Picard's report yadda yadda yadda...

HAFTEL [on monitor]: Starfleet's policy on research is clear. You're making your stand on very uncertain ground.

Really? There is policy on teaching blank slate androids? I'm gonna need to hear more if you want to make me agree with that argument...

BALLARD: It isn't working out that way.
(She shows him the classroom. Lal is standing by the wall while the children are around a table together)
BALLARD: The children were afraid of her.

Thank goodness, a realistic action. Things that look like adults but acting like children would be scary to them. She talks weird, moves her head weird, and talks to herself a lot. What kid would want to hang out with that kind of person?

The problem is that we're supposed to belief that children in the future don't need to grief and take calculus at a young age AND belief this stuff at the same time. Sorry, but that doesn't work. At the least have her project herself into a hologram during a field trip to the holodeck. Don't tell me Data couldn't do that!

LAL: Why would they wish to be unkind?
DATA: Because you are different. Differences sometimes scare people. I have learned that some of them use humour to hide their fear.
LAL: I do not want to be different.

There's a lot to unpack here about when it's okay to conform and when it's not, but that would be depressing even to me.

DATA: I do not know how to help her. Lal is passing into sentience. It is perhaps the most difficult stage of her development.

Ugh. Lal was sentient from the moment she woke up. It was the wrong word to use here. "Maturity" would've been much better.

DATA: I have not told Lal how difficult it was for me to assimilate. I did not wish it to discourage her. Perhaps this was an error of judgement.
CRUSHER: You didn't have any one experienced to help you through sentience. She at least has you. Just help her realise that she's not alone, and be there to nurture her when she needs love and attention.
DATA: I can give her attention, Doctor. But I am incapable of giving her love.
(Data leaves)
CRUSHER: Now why do I find that so hard to believe?

Good scene.

(Picard is in bed, resting)
WORF [OC]: Captain, incoming signal. Starfleet priority one. Admiral Haftel.
PICARD: On my monitor, Lieutenant. Admiral.
HAFTEL [on monitor]: Captain Picard, I hope I didn't disturb you.
PICARD: Not at all.

Ugh. I had a rant about time differences between ships and planets started, but I gave up. Let's just chalk Haftel's remark up to courtesy and move on...

HAFTEL [on monitor]: I should advise you, Captain, that if I'm not satisfied with what I see, I am empowered to take the android back with me.

Empowered? We proved last season that Data isn't the property of Starfleet, so why doesn't that apply to Lal? Or are you going to tell me that if Lal isn't determined to be sentient she belongs to Starfleet? Yeah, no. In that case she belongs to Data, who I'm sure requisitioned the supplies from his own account.

Captain's log, supplemental. We are holding position pending the arrival of Admiral Haftel from Starfleet Research. Commander Data is completing his final neural transfers to the android he has named Lal, which I have learned, in the language Hindi means beloved.

Way too late to share this factoid. Way, WAY too late.

LAL: I am functioning within normal. I am fine, thank you.

Nice touch, if a bit late in the episode for it...

LAL: Father says I would learn a great deal from working with someone as old as you.
GUINAN: You're hired.

You don't get to be half a millennium old without developing a sense of humor, do you? Or going insane, I guess...

LAL: I've been programmed with a listing of fourteen hundred and twelve known beverages.

Forget the contraction, the Federation has only heard of 1412 beverages? Let's say the Federation has 150 members, that's only ten beverages per world. That figure needs to be an order of magnitude higher, if not TWO orders of magnitude!

GUINAN: You said I've instead of I have.
DATA: It is a skill my programme has never mastered.
LAL: Then I will desist.
DATA: No. You have exceeded my abilities.

Always hated the contraction bit, but I've already preached long and hard on that issue...

PICARD: He believes the Daystrom annex on Galor Four would be more suitable.

Putting aside the question of why the Cardassians would name a class of starships after a Federation world, I was surprised at how much the expanded universe uses Galor IV, particularly the RPG modules. Of course the interesting part is that according to some this planet was once known as Mudd's World (see "I, Mudd"). If the Federation could study the androids there, what took Soong so long?

DATA: Then he is questioning my ability as a parent.
PICARD: In a manner of speaking.
DATA: Does the Admiral have children?
PICARD: Yes, I believe he does, Data. Why?
DATA: I am forced to wonder how much experience he had as a parent when his first child was born.

Another nice touch. Not to be too cynical, but I gotta ask: does Discovery have conversations like this? Or the Kelvinverse, for that matter?

(A couple by the far wall are gazing into each others eyes and holding hands)
GUINAN: You see?
LAL: What are they doing?
GUINAN: It's called flirting.

Not sure this can be called "flirting".

LAL: He's biting that female!

Always a great line, but it's time for that downloaded dictionary rant again...

LAL: Why are they leaving?
GUINAN: Lal, there are some things your father's just going to have to explain to you when he thinks you're ready.

I'm pretty sure Data downloaded "The Talk" into her already, although you gotta wonder when he would decide that she's experienced enough to experience sexual intimacy for herself. Although Guinan's line is great, it's the wrong thing to say in this situation.

(Guinan moves away, and Riker comes in. Lal promptly starts flirting, and her voice deepens)
RIKER: You're new around here, aren't you?
LAL: Yes.
(She reaches across the bar, pulls Riker towards herself and kisses him. Data enters)
GUINAN: Lal! Lal, put him down.
DATA: Commander, what are your intentions toward my daughter?
RIKER: Your daughter? Nice to meet you.
(He beats a hasty exit)

Great scene, and a great teaser for a TNG sitcom...

[Nate the Great]

LAL: I watch them and I can do the things they do but I will never feel the emotions. I'll never know love.
DATA: It is a limitation we must learn to accept, Lal.
LAL: Then why do you still try to emulate humans? What purpose does it serve except to remind you that you are incomplete?
DATA: I have asked myself that many times as I have struggled to be more human. Until I realised it is the struggle itself that is most important. We must strive to be more than we are, Lal. It does not matter that we will never reach our ultimate goal. The effort yields its own rewards.
LAL: You are wise, Father.
DATA: It is the difference between knowledge and experience.
LAL: I learned today that humans like to hold hands. It is a symbolic gesture of affection.

Great scene. Whether or not Data is wise is a subject for another day, although Riker sure thought so...

HAFTEL: Captain, are we talking about breaking up a family? Isn't that rather a sentimental attitude about androids?
PICARD: They're living, sentient beings. Their rights and privileges in our society have been defined. I helped define them.
HAFTEL: Yes, Captain, and I am more than willing to acknowledge that. What you must acknowledge is that Lal may be a technological step forward in the development of artificial intelligence.

My immediate response is...so? That doesn't negate their rights. He's making no argument that doesn't boil down to "I don't really think they're sentient and have rights" or "they may be sentient, but they're still a lower life form and I can make them slaves if I want to." I wonder what Captain Louvois is doing this week...

HAFTEL: She is capable of running over sixty trillion calculations per second, and you have her working as a cocktail waitress.

Again...so? There are plenty of doctoral students who have to work in restaurants to make money! Is Haftel claiming to have the right to not only own Lal but actually reprogram her and control all of her actions when he's out of sight?

HAFTEL: I'm not convinced the sort of behaviour she observes here will be a positive influence.

Again...so? Even if Haftel determines that Lal is Federation property, she wouldn't be his property. He sound's more like a grumpy dad judging his son's date than a Starfleet admiral who supposedly has experience working with people...

TROI: Come in.
(Lal enters, obviously upset)
TROI: Hello, Lal. How are you?
LAL: Troi. Admiral. Admiral. An admiral from Starfleet has come to take me away, Troi. I am scared.
TROI: You are scared, aren't you?
LAL: I feel it. How is this possible?
TROI: I don't know.
LAL: This is what it means to feel. This is what it means to feel.

Like I said on TV Tropes, this scene is a tearjerker. She's terrified, but she doesn't have the words yet to talk about it properly or dispel her fear. I'm also reminded of Doc in "Latent Image" after he killed Ensign Jetal.

HAFTEL: All the other arguments aside, there's one that is irrefutable. There are only two Soong-type androids in existence. It would be very dangerous to have you both in the same place. Especially aboard a starship. One lucky shot by a Romulan, we'd lose you both.

Again...so? They aren't the property of Starfleet yadda yadda...

HAFTEL: Captain, you are jeopardising your command and your career.
PICARD: There are times, sir, when men of good conscience cannot blindly follow orders. You acknowledge their sentience, but you ignore their personal liberties and freedom. Order a man to hand his child over to the state? Not while I am his captain.

"Sometimes I think the only reason I come here is to listen to these wonderful speeches of yours." Hehe...

HAFTEL: She won't survive much longer. There was nothing anyone could have done. We'd repolarise one pathway and another would collapse. And then another. His hands were moving faster than I could see, trying to stay ahead of each breakdown. He refused to give up. He was remarkable. It just wasn't meant to be.

"You didn't call him 'it'!"

LAL: I love you, Father.
DATA: I wish I could feel it with you.
LAL: I will feel it for both of us.

I'd make an onion ninja joke, but those are really overplayed.

DATA: I thank you for your sympathy, but she is here. Her presence so enriched my life that I could not allow her to pass into oblivion. So I incorporated her programs back into my own. I have transferred her memories to me.

Icky, morally questionable, and completely unnecessary. If they HAD to do this, at least use it to get rid of that stupid contraction thing!

The Fiver

Lal: NOOOO... I mean, yes.

I think we have another case of "first lines missing" syndrome!

Picard: You know this is going to be a big responsibility.
Data: I have prepared by reading a book by Ambassador Spock, A Logician's Guide to Baby and Child Care.
Picard: Fascinating.

Hehe.

Haftel: I'm here to take Lal.
Picard: But you'll be breaking up a family.
Haftel: Nonsense -- they're both toasters.
Picard: I hear this from everyone! Look, if you put bread in Data, you're not going to get toast!
Haftel: Do you speak from experience?
Picard: Erm, no.

Interesting mental image...

Lal: I feel sad!
Troi: I sense that something's wrong, Lal.
Lal: I feel annoyed with you.

She learns quick...

La Forge: So, she's going to be all right?
Haftel: No, unfortunately.
Troi: I knew something was wrong when I saw her wearing a red shirt today.

Security wears yellow at this time yadda yadda yadda...

Nitpicker's Guide

Actually, Phil had many of the same complaints that I did (if I copied from him it was subconscious), but in particular he points out that this would've been a great opportunity to get rid of the contraction thing, but they didn't take it.

[Nate the Great]

Marth 19th, 1990, "Sins of the Father"

Transcript
Fiver (by Marc)
Memory Alpha

The Episode

Captain's log, Stardate 43685.2 As part of an exchange programme, we're taking aboard a Klingon officer to return the recent visit of Commander Riker to the cruiser Pagh.
PICARD: We must take care that while he is with us, Commander Kurn is accorded all the rights and responsibilities due the first officer of this ship. If he should feel patronised in any way
RIKER: I'm sure we'd know. One does not patronise a Klingon warrior.

Why is Riker here? Don't tell me that the guy he temporarily replaced back in "A Matter of Honor" suffered a temporary demotion! That guy was probably recently killed in battle or on medical leave. You don't need two first officers, Riker should be on vacation or something.

KURN: I have studied all of your service records. Impressive. We shall see if you live up to your reputations.

Presuming that Klingon standards of "impressive service record" are different from Federation ones, what has the Enterprise done in battle to impress him at this point? The Romulans haven't fully made their presence known yet. Is he referring to first contact with the Borg? They had to beg Q for help!

KURN: Do you wish to speak, Acting Ensign Wesley Crusher?

Here's a question for you-how much would the Klingons respect officers that don't have official commissions yet? From what Martok said, he was stuck with being a laborer without an official commission. Wouldn't Kurn ignore Wesley unless it's to give him an order?

WESLEY: He just doesn't seem to like me. I can't do anything right for him. Every time I respond to an order he jumps down my throat. I don't know what I'm doing wrong.

Klingons don't like the weak. Wesley probably isn't showing enough confidence. I can't really blame Kurn for this one.

LAFORGE: He pulled a surprise inspection in the middle of a maintenance cycle! I tried to explain it to him
RIKER: But he wouldn't listen.
LAFORGE: We're all going to be doing double shifts down there just to ready for the next inspection.

I don't think it's the first officer's perogative to pull a surprise inspection, that's the chief engineer's job. Furthermore, how much could Kurn know about the Enterprise engines to do the inspection himself? On a Klingon ship wouldn't it just be a matter of raising the standards that the chief engineer has to meet and threatening punishment if they fail.

And double shifts to get ready for an inspection? Geordi is that far behind? I find this dubious.

RIKER: This is not a Klingon ship, sir.
KURN: No, Commander, it is not. If it were a Klingon ship, I would have killed you for offering your suggestion.

On the one hand I can understand Kurn's position: on a Klingon ship nobody criticizes you except someone of higher rank. On the other hand, on a Klingon ship nobody would make an unsolicited criticism in the first place! In other words, lighten up, Kurn!

KURN: How long has the bird been dead? It appears to have been lying in the sun for quite some time.
LAFORGE: It's not dead, it's been replicated. You do understand that we cook most of our foods.
KURN: Ah, yes. I was told to prepare for that. I shall try some of your burned replicated bird meat.

I'm disturbed at the notion that for Klingons "any amount of cooking of meat=burned meat." You can't tell me that Klingons never cook meat. That's absurd. SF Debris once listed the reasons why we cook meat, I believe in the review for this episode. It's enough to say that while I can understand a Klingon being ready to eat meat raw if that's all that's available during a hunt, they still have scientists who would tell them that cooked meat can be converted into energy by the body more efficiently. Plus there are many mentions of Klingon cooked dishes that include blood or other organs, why is this different?

PICARD: [Caviar is] A delicacy from the Caspian Sea on Earth. It's a favourite of mine. Our replicator's never done it justice.

Would the writers STOP IT with the "replicators can't make anything that tastes like the real thing" gag? PLEASE! It gets more nonsensical every time. I'll forgive such jokes in TOS when replicators were in their infancy, but it's been over a hundred years and this ship has the largest mobile computer in the known galaxy! If a given food can't be perfectly replicated, it shouldn't be available as a replicated food in the first place.

KURN: I never kill anyone at the supper table, Mister La Forge.

Why not? Is this supposed to be a joke?

CRUSHER: Don't you like it, Commander?
KURN: Our food has much more taste to it.

Okay, some people like rare steaks, but the Klingon diet is more than meat, we've seen it. This conversation has gone on way too long, we get the point! Kurn doesn't like the food and Worf does, so Kurn looks down on Worf.

KURN: This entire ship seems built on comfort, relaxation, being at ease. It is not the ship of a warrior, not the ship of a Klingon.

I get that Kurn is baiting Worf, but anyone else hearing this would conclude that Kurn is xenophobic, which wouldn't reflect well on him.

KURN: No. Much more. You are the eldest son. The challenge is yours to make.
WORF: Challenge?
KURN: The Klingon High Council has judged our father a traitor to the Empire.

I find this odd. Kurn has just dropped the bombshell about being Worf's brother, and before they can even properly reconcile Kurn drops this bombshell. Worf should've had a scene, probably with Troi, to process this. And he should've told Kurn to go to Ten Forward to wait for him, maybe order a prune juice while he was at it. I would've liked to have seen Guinan's reaction to Kurn.

PICARD: We're changing course. Set coordinates for the First City of the Klingon Imperial Empire.

No, you're setting course for Qo'noS. Picard's order would only make sense if you're already in orbit and are taking a shuttle down. I suddenly wonder if the First City has a landing pad large enough for Voyager...

DURAS: You claim a birthright you have forsaken?
WORF: I have not forsaken my heritage. I am Klingon. My heart is of this world. My blood is as yours.
DURAS: Yet you come to us wearing a child's uniform.

A good point. Worf isn't here on Starfleet business, so why isn't he wearing Klingon clothes?

(Duras tears off Worf's baldric)
DURAS: You will not wear the emblems of our people.

I'm not sure Duras has the authority to do that. In fact this seems like duel challenge material...

K'MPEC: If you leave before the Mek'ba, no shame will come on you. Return to your ship. Go back to your life. The challenge will be forgotten.

But Worf wouldn't be let back into the Empire ever. I don't think that Worf considers this an acceptable solution.

RIKER: What Federation starship was closest to Khitomer at the time of the attack?
DATA: The USS Intrepid was the first ship on the scene, sir.

This is the NCC-38907, Excelsior class. There have been many Intrepids in Starfleet history, but they don't use the letter addendum system, just different registry numbers.

PICARD: jIlajneS. ghIj qet jaghmeyjaj.

"I accept with honor. May your enemies run with fear."

WORF: tlhIH ghIj jIHyoj.
K'MPEC: biHnuch.

"I fear your judgement." "Coward."

The Fiver

Kurn: Worf, I am your long-lost younger brother.
Worf: Why did you insult me with your patronizing behaviour?
Kurn: I wanted to test your character. This table you smashed with your fist proves that your heart is truly Klingon.
Worf: I must confess that I picked up this habit from my long-lost girlfriend.
Kurn: Ah! Then she too must be Klingon!
Worf: Sufficiently.

Ha ha. I wonder if Kurn would've liked K'ehlyr.

Duras: If I cannot turn you, then perhaps my sisters will. Here -- look at their photograph!
Kurn: Nice try...but it takes more than a little cleavage to distract a Kling--GAK!
Duras: Heheheh.

Kurn's not dead. Don't we use "Ack!" for wounded and "Gak!" for dead?

Worf: To preserve the peace within the Empire, I will accept discommendation.
Picard: Discommendation? What does that mean?
Worf: There is no greater shame in Klingon society. The closest human equivalent is being forced to relinquish the key to the executive washroom.

Ha.

Nitpicker's Guide

* Phil asks why they would replicate meat with the bones instead of just the meat.
* Kahlest mentions the Emperor when there isn't one at this point. The Kahless clone won't exist for several years.

[Zeke]

I've always appreciated how Marc used the end of this fiver to set up a running gag from my earlier "Redemption" fiver. (Anybody who reads this site "in order" probably ends up very confused...)

[Flying Gremlin]

On the issue of the replicator, I think the point they're trying to get across is that there's no variation for personal tastes. The computer may be able to make a pie perfectly ten out of ten times, but the pie would be just the same pie. A home-cooked pie takes into account palette preference and ingredient selection - if baking an apple pie, for example, what apples did you use, did you grind the cinnamon yourself, are you using real vanilla beans or an artificial extract, how much salt did you add, did you add one pinch or two of nutmeg.

[Nate the Great]

That doesn't fly. On numerous occasions the computer has given the option of dozens of variations for a given food. Like I've said before, the problem is the writer's inability to grasp that it would be child's play to program the computer such that when Picard asks for soup, the replicator makes soup according to Picard's presets, etc.


Whenever someone complains about replicated food, it's not just the taste, but the whole experience. The smell is off, the texture is off, the "mouthfeel" is off, etc.


Notice that you don't see this problem with the food slots in TOS. They didn't create alcohol because the technology wasn't good enough yet.

[Flying Gremlin]

Originally Posted by Nate the Great

Notice that you don't see this problem with the food slots in TOS. They didn't create alcohol because the technology wasn't good enough yet.

Probably because they were drunk all the time.

[Flying Gremlin]

Originally Posted by Nate the Great

That doesn't fly. On numerous occasions the computer has given the option of dozens of variations for a given food. Like I've said before, the problem is the writer's inability to grasp that it would be child's play to program the computer such that when Picard asks for soup, the replicator makes soup according to Picard's presets, etc.

Whenever someone complains about replicated food, it's not just the taste, but the whole experience. The smell is off, the texture is off, the "mouthfeel" is off, etc.

Dozens of variations... if the user of the replicator cares to figure them out. Some might just like to whine and not actually care to figure out how to use it. See also: Janeway's burned meatloaf from the replicator.

It also might be a little bit of atmospheric difference. To use a real world example, the reason why there's so many jokes about airplane food is that pressurized cabins make food taste blander and less textured. Considering space travel is the same, the writers could be interpreting replicator food as the 24th century equivalent of airplane food. There could be some logic to it, but it may be horse hockey.