Star Trek: No Subtitle

[NAHTMMM]

Originally Posted by Nate the Great

"How is this directed at this particular movie?"

In the Wrath of Khan there is no mention of Kirk taking it three times. If he heard about the test being a no-win scenario and then reprogrammed the computer to allow for a win scenario, that's forcing reality to conform to his ideals. Failing twice and then cheating is petty.

I always figured that this was about how it happened, albeit with less of the overt smugness on Kirk's part during the rigged attempt.

In fact, I'm not sure whether it's Explicit Canon or not, but you're not supposed to know going into the Kobayashi Maru that it is impossible to "win".

It's never occured to me to think of Kirk's cheating as "petty". Interesting thought.

Originally Posted by Wowbagger

The sequence was cut for pacing reasons, and (as I understand it) because it was seen as overly fanboyish.

Good move there. It would have been absurdly fanboyish.

[Nate the Great]

How can you possibly not know going in to the Kobayashi Maru that it was impossible to win? How many cadets have gone through this thing? Is it possible for each and every one to be ordered to secrecy about telling other people it's a nowin scenario?

And the apple really WAS over the top. Sure, tweak the program to up the firepower of your weapons or the speed of the ship, but DON'T act like you're not taking it seriously.

[NAHTMMM]

Originally Posted by Nate the Great

Is it possible for each and every one to be ordered to secrecy about telling other people it's a nowin scenario?

Yes. Whether all of them maintain the secrecy is another matter, but as best I can remember, the novels tend to hold the position that they do keep it a secret. (The Kobayashi Maru and Sarek would be two to check.)

This may seem overly idealistic, but keep in mind that

1. the cadets are expected to keep much bigger secrets, both at the Academy and in their eventual careers, and to obey much more demanding orders.

2. the test (and, in fact, most simulations) probably doesn't exactly show up on any syllabus, which closes off the possibility of someone asking someone else, "Hey, what's this one about?"

3. it is very much in the Academy's interests that not a hint of the possibility of a no-win scenario get out to those who haven't yet taken it. The character demonstrated by a given cadet will be much different if he or she knows going in that it might be an unwinnable situation in which the best thing to do is to impress your superiors with your character. Since the leaking of such a secret would be very detrimental to the Academy, then, the Academy is certainly going to make it clear to cadets who have taken the test that their spoiling it for others would be very detrimental to their careers.

[Nate the Great]

I've never read Kobayashi Maru, but I have read Sarek. In that book Kirk's nephew Peter was about to take the test and he knew that he was under scrutiny about whether or not he'd be the second person to beat the test. Of course he did, but if it's public knowledge that Kirk was the only one to beat it, this implies that it's public knowledge that no one else ever has.

To expand the logic, if the test was supposed to be beatable and only one has, simple reasoning would yield only two possible scenarios:

1. The test is impossibly hard. After all, you can't exactly grade on a curve with the Kobayashi Maru. There are only two objectives (save the Maru and save your own ship) and very little slack in accomplishing this. This is a pass/fail test.
2. Everyone knows it's supposed to be unbeatable.

[Nate the Great]

http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/in...ies-trekxi.htm

Ha ha! More inconsistencies, this time from an external source.

1. "Jim Kirk is born in the year 2233 on Stardate 2233.04." Huh? If the Stardate is simply the year, why call it a "Stardate"? Furthermore, a hundredth of a year is over three days. That's what I call inadequate precision. You'll need another decimal point, guys.
2. "Why is Captain Robau wearing a blue instead of a golden (or even a red?) uniform?" Valid point! Why shuffle the departmental colors? What's the point?
3. "Why is the appearance of the Romulan Nero not a total surprise to the crew of the Kelvin? At this time, humans have never seen Romulans face to face (at least no one has survived to report of it), as clearly evidenced in TOS: "Balance of Terror". Why doesn't anyone surmise that he has to be a Vulcan because that is how he must have looked to them?" Yeah, I forgot about this one, too.
4. I forgot about the age discrepancy with Captain Pike. Shouldn't he be less than ten years older than Kirk?
5. "When the shuttles from the Academy arrive at the Enterprise, we can see that about a dozen of them are stacked on two levels on either side of the shuttlebay. The shuttlebay has to be some 40m across to accommodate the 10m+ shuttles in the shown fashion. This would translate to a length of the Enterprise of over 700m meters!" Good point. Is there a reason there needs to be a dozen shuttles being stored in the main shuttlebay? Don't most series imply that long-term shuttle storage is via garages off the main bay, which is strictly to be used for embarking and arriving shuttles and "visitor parking"?
6. They call Klingon ships "Warbirds?" Was there NOT ONE Trekkie on the production staff to say "Wrong. Romulans have Warbirds, Klingons have Birds of Prey." NOT ONE person had the courage to stand up for accuracy for something that is trivially easy to get right?
7. Why is Delta Vega apparently in the same star system as Vulcan? Would a mention of long-range sensors or a subspace telescope or something be too hard?
8. "The interior of the engineering hull of the Enterprise is nothing like anything we have seen on any Starfleet vessel so far. There is no centralized engine room, there is nothing identifiable as power transfer conduits. There is no visible deck structure. It looks like most of this section is comprised of a maze of water pipes. Pipes with rivets. Purportedly this part of the movie was filmed at an actual brewery. This would explain the look, but definitely not excuse it. Overall, the set also seems too large for the secondary hull of the ship, which was designed to be overall just 366m long." Rivets? Water pipes? Was a simple warp core too "boring"?

[JVTruman]

For #2, I don't think the department colors were changed. The Kelvin is a science vessel, so I figure having a science-department officer in charge works.

[Nate the Great]

I'm not so sure about that. I can see having a much larger than usual percentage of the crew be in the Science divisions for a Science vessel, but you're still going to have Security, Engineering, Medical, and so forth personnel. And the skills necessary to command a starship are basically the same no matter what kind of vessel it is. You're going to need command training (including the Kobayashi Maru) to command a ship, and that means (in the TOS days) a yellow uniform.

[Wowbagger]

Originally Posted by Nate the Great

4. I forgot about the age discrepancy with Captain Pike. Shouldn't he be less than ten years older than Kirk?

Why? Canon is silent on Pike's age.

5. [...] Don't most series imply that long-term shuttle storage is via garages off the main bay, which is strictly to be used for embarking and arriving shuttles and "visitor parking"?

The size discrepancy is the most seriously troublesome continuity point in the movie (although anyone who gets agitated about this and not about the Bird of Prey size problems is a hypocrite). So I dig that complaint, and Bernd at EAS does a good job handling it in his article on the new Enterprise.

That being said, no, shuttlebays have always been used for shuttle storage. The only series to suggest otherwise was Voyager, and then only very indirectly. For non-canon support (if you go for that stuff), consult the TNG Ent-D blueprints.

6. They call Klingon ships "Warbirds?" Was there NOT ONE Trekkie on the production staff to say "Wrong. Romulans have Warbirds, Klingons have Birds of Prey." NOT ONE person had the courage to stand up for accuracy for something that is trivially easy to get right?

It was undoubtedly an error -- and a vanishingly small one, at that. Would you say the same to Brannon Braga about "Broken Bow"? If you impute it to producer cowardice, you must say the same of the ENT production staff, at least.

8. "The interior of the engineering hull of the Enterprise is nothing like anything we have seen on any Starfleet vessel so far. [...]" Rivets? Water pipes? Was a simple warp core too "boring"?

This item is the actual reason I'm posting (on such an old thread!), because the first time I saw it I thought the same thing. Later, I found out that, actually, Abrams & Co. wanted a really cool, multi-level engineering set, with a pretty sexy-looking warp core in the center. You can see the early designs in The Art of Star Trek. Unfortunately, the designs were never finalized, because the entire set had to be cut -- they ran out of money.

So, the hideous engineering set we got was because of budget issues.

[Nate the Great]

Canon is not silent on Pike's age. Look, Spock said he served eleven years with Pike in "The Menagerie." Fanon suggests that this means two five-year missions with a year in between for refit and long-term shore leave for the crew (many of which didn't go home in that five years). After Pike was another refit, and then Kirk. Did Pike appear to be more than ten years older than Kirk would be when he was in "The Cage?" No, they looked to be basically the same age; mid thirties. And if Kirk is 17 or whatever in Trek 11, Pike should barely be thirty.